Some feedback on Reseller center, please

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Posted by zaboss, 08-16-2005, 05:29 AM
Hi, I am under a reseller on reseller center, which happends to be on vacation right now. The mail server is down for about 15 hours by now, and the latest feedback was 6 hours ago where they say it would only take up to 60 minutes to be back only. I don't have access to their forum, so I kindly ask if someone has to provide me with some feedback on what is going on... Thank you,
Posted by novahost, 08-16-2005, 09:06 AM
Im getting my sites out of reseller-center too, but Im totally confused about where to go... it has to have redundant mail servers!
Posted by dhaberer, 08-16-2005, 09:13 AM
join the club. currently looking thoroughly for something to move all my sites and clients to from reseller-center.
Posted by zaboss, 08-16-2005, 09:21 AM
It seems that Mike and Alan, original administrators of RC had setup a new company at www.reseller-center.info. I wonder why someone would sell a succesfull company and then start from scratch... Anyone got any info on that?
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-16-2005, 09:46 AM
Their mail server is down agaim?
Posted by zaboss, 08-16-2005, 09:52 AM
Yes, 18 hours and counting... Yash, I saw on other threads that several former RC members have chosen JH. Do you provide a redundant mail server? What is your policy on that?
Posted by dhaberer, 08-16-2005, 09:53 AM
unfortunately, history is doomed to repeat itself. apparently they were "add a new drive" in the middle of the day on a monday no less and it wouldn't boot back up. I think I've found my new host and am creating an account right now. I'll post my exp in a bit once things are up and running.
Posted by dhaberer, 08-16-2005, 09:56 AM
my reply from jd on that issue: Firstly we run heavy-duty redundant mail servers unlike our competitors. We use only Dual XEONs with a SCSI disk array in RAID1 to achieve high reliability. Apart from thta we have a backup relay mail server to capture incoming mail during any major mail server issue as well as standby servers to recovery quickly from any catastrophic issue
Posted by gsaunders, 08-16-2005, 10:05 AM
ummm... unfortunatetly their forums are now down so you can't get updates through that location either.
Posted by NS-Icon, 08-16-2005, 10:17 AM
Hi folks, If you are all still encountering poor service from RC, I strongly suggest you take the time to backup both your site data and site databases as soon as possible and consider relocating to another hosting provider. Dont forget at times hosts of any size can encounter unexpected downtime, if your service has been reliable in the past this could just be a temporary glitch. Keep us posted with how things go, and best of luck with your search for a new provider should you feel thats the necessary action you need to take.
Posted by frico, 08-16-2005, 10:23 AM
I can't believe it, now the forums are down!!! I think I'll move all my sites to other service, any suggestions???
Posted by gsaunders, 08-16-2005, 10:25 AM
FYI: Here is the response I got in regards to my ticket about the forums. I know many of the RC folks will probably want to know: A: Yes they have ceased to be a source for information. We are not going to sponsor a forum that directs customers to move their sites to other competitors.
Posted by NS-Icon, 08-16-2005, 10:30 AM
Hi gsaunders, Well it looks like they have provided you with the answer you where looking for and most likely already expected. Never fear, if they are unwilling to provide a forum, you have WHT, its probably one of the best forums on the internet today allowing you to choose from a variety of hosting providers with ease Take a look around, browse the offers section and also make use of the HostQuote feature. Dont forget to test your new found host to ensure the level of support / service is to your expectations before signing up with them. Keep us posted with who you decide to host with
Posted by msingle, 08-16-2005, 10:32 AM
You're kidding me, right? We've been sitting there all night, refreshing and hoping for an answer, and instead of deleting offending posts they delete the entire forum?? Unbelievable!
Posted by frico, 08-16-2005, 10:54 AM
hi gsaunders, first mail server down, then communication lack without updates and now the forums are down, tell us if you have any update from them, thanks!!
Posted by zaboss, 08-16-2005, 11:02 AM
Now it's working but 24 hours worth of email has been lost, not to mention those that weren't downloaded yet.
Posted by hafa, 08-16-2005, 11:05 AM
We are not going to sponsor a forum that directs customers to move their sites to other competitors." What a bunch of horse trollip. Such audacity is simply unbeliveable. The next step is that they are not going to continue to provide service because it's so poor that it drives customers away. These guys have been heading downhill for some time and this is just the icing on the cake. I guess I'll move the rest of my accounts out tonight. FWIW, I went with Jodohost and they seem quite good so far.
Posted by NS-Icon, 08-16-2005, 11:07 AM
Hi Zaboss, 24 hours worth of mail may not have been lost, most of the time a mail server will try a number of times to send the mail to the destination mail server before giving up. Hopefully those who sent you an e-mail will receive a notice indicating the mail could not be sent at that time and would resend allow you to receive any e-mail that was lost
Posted by gsaunders, 08-16-2005, 11:18 AM
The last response I have is as follows: The mail server recreation script has now recreated 85% - 90% of mailboxes and is still recreationg the final 10%. If you have an email account that has not been recreated or is not working correctly please submit a trouble ticket with the domain name of the account. I found this on their home page under announcements. It no longer links to the forum. I also received and email with the same contents at 10:12AM Eastern. Nothing new since then.
Posted by igotdreams, 08-16-2005, 11:22 AM
I called in, they are answering the phones. The said the same thing, "that they are 85% - 90% done" and send in a trouble ticket through the control panel with a list of downed sites (domains). I have like 59 domain names. Took me a while.
Posted by igotdreams, 08-16-2005, 11:24 AM
oh, yeah some one explain this; reseller-network.com Are they going to build this up to sell it as well?
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-16-2005, 11:26 AM
We use Dual XEON mail servers that have RAID1 SCSI Arrays. This sort of a configuration is very reliable and the chances of any sort of hardware/harddisk issues are remote. Our mail servers are backed up every 24 to 48 hours. We have standby servers to aid in quick recovery incase of a catastrophic server failure. We have installed a backup relay server that basically queues up incoming mail during the event one of our primary mail servers is out of service. I do encourage you to visit our forum or talk to our sales team if you have any other questions. It is inappropriate for me to answer sales questions here.
Posted by frico, 08-16-2005, 11:26 AM
Now, for me is not working, you could send and recieve mails from all your accounts?? Last edited by frico; 08-16-2005 at 11:30 AM.
Posted by gsaunders, 08-16-2005, 11:45 AM
I believe this is Mike and Alan... the old RC owners. They look to be making a new start...
Posted by flywhy555, 08-16-2005, 11:48 AM
After I sent the trouble ticket with all of my domains, they were working within minutes. But this second outage was the last straw for me. Well - actually, them pulling the forums was what put me over the edge. I'll investigate my options...AGAIN! (It stinks 'cause they used to be SO good!) Anyone have any experience with reseller-center.info? If it IS the original owners, and they run it like it used to be run, I would definitely try it...
Posted by cr-hosting, 08-16-2005, 11:56 AM
i sent in a ticket and they helped me wit ha domain. Sent in another with other domains I guess they are working on them. this has been the best of all the worst situations. I will keep clients here, some unfortunalty left and some got transfered to dedicated boxes but alot are still in RC. The pricing is good enough.
Posted by Obry, 08-16-2005, 12:06 PM
Nice, e-mail is coming back up and all mail on the server is gone... my clients are gonna love me... especially the ones that only used to use webmail... :-(
Posted by igotdreams, 08-16-2005, 12:07 PM
They are reseller-network.com now, I am worried to try them because they sold all their accounts to someone else. So basically after I am good and settled we cna go through all this again. I just found out they do not offer coldfusion. I have more than 60 websites running, moving the databases, emails, forms, forums, domains, and web applications is going to be HELL.
Posted by gsaunders, 08-16-2005, 12:13 PM
Ultimately I am not sure what I am going to do. I am going to talk with my clients, most I have close relationships with, and explain what is going on and see how they feel about things. We may simply move email services to a company dedicated to that purpose. Don't know yet. I know I hate moving. I have another reseller account I setup for backup purposes and for splitting my clients as I continue, however I believe the mail issues experienced could easily hit at just about all of the other HSPHERE resellers... unless someone has a custom configuration outside of what HSPHERE allows. - Most hosts state 24 to 48 hour backup of email. - Some say they have a Mail Relay that will kick in should the primary server go down, but it only queues incoming mail. I don't believe it allows the customers to send out of it. Which means you still can't send mail without using another SMTP server. - Most state they have a backup server that they can put into place should the primary go down and if they have a mail relay server then it will kick in while they are trying to bring up the new box. BUT there is still going to be DOWN time as they go to restoring data to the new box and that data is likely to be 24 to 48 hours old. The only thing that will be different is your incoming mail should not be lost and perhaps a little faster restoration depending on the hardware AND how many accounts are on the mail server. If I am wrong on this then one of the other owners can share how they do things and give personal testimony of how a true downage was recovered and how well it worked. I think RC inherited a massive number of domains on all of the existing boxes. I know when I talked with the owner a while back he stated that there were 3 to 4 times as many domains on each box than what he likes to see on them before createing a new box. My understanding was there was a plan in the works to put new boxes in and migrate accounts to the new boxes to ease the load on the servers. At least that was my understanding. In lite of what has happened I don't know if that is still a possibility or not. This is hurting me as well as others and each has to decide what they need. I wish luck to all in whatever decision is made. I don't know
Posted by prairiestar, 08-16-2005, 12:30 PM
My thoughts are much like gsaunders...I don't know. I'm probably going to open an account at reseller-network as a backup in the next couple of days. I can then get a couple of my critical sites over there ready to flip the switch should problems arise at RC again. I don't have a ton of accounts...for the most part they are customers I do development for...I don't seek to sell hosting to the general public. Mike and Allan are both there and I've joined their forum. I trust them and don't hold their decision to sell RC against them in any way. They have always provided world class support and it is nice to have someone who will communicate during problem times. I find this is my number 1 problem with RC...lack of communication skills. I think I've been very patient and even defended RC on this forum during the last outage when I felt they were being unfairly flamed. I will tell you that another episode like this and I'll move everything immediately regardless of the hassle and pain it will involve for me and my customers. Edit - RC...Pulling the forum down is a bad move...delete offending posts if need be...but...pulling the forum down makes even patient folks wonder if sticking around is the right thing to do.
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 12:47 PM
Nope... the servers have been accepting the email, then throwing them back with PERMANENT failures. This is the same BS problem they caused during the migration. It makes it look like your dmain no longer exists, and is not coming back.
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 12:51 PM
Yea... now they have gone from 85-90% done at that time, to... just minutes ago. Also, because dwmail was the default webmail program accessed by the direct links from the CP's (and my custom pages).... those links do not work now because dwmail is not installed on the new server.
Posted by The Gunner, 08-16-2005, 12:56 PM
Same here! I dont have a lot of accounts mostly ones I develop for. I too have tried to remain loyal to RC, but removing the forums is unacceptable!
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 01:01 PM
They also pulled down their server-status page, their webcams, basically all of their support area and replaced it with a "contact us" email form to email to them. (default subject: "sales"... yeah right!) This is very bizarre.
Posted by Vortech, 08-16-2005, 01:01 PM
Man they dropped there forum now. I sure fell sorry for the customers there. It seems to only be getting worse there with mail issues like that, 24 hours is a long time for a mail server to be down. I wish all the reseller-center clients luck and hope you find a company that will be around for a long time.
Posted by The Gunner, 08-16-2005, 01:15 PM
They might be putting the forums back, at least now there is no 404 page anymore. http://reseller-center.com/forums/index.php?act=idx
Posted by hafa, 08-16-2005, 01:21 PM
The forums are currently unavailable" Yeah, right, so is any integrity and accountability; currently, that is...
Posted by Obry, 08-16-2005, 01:27 PM
They removed the Forums link from their site so I doubt the forums will be coming back up and even if they do - I just don't care anymore - this is total B.S. and is way past the point of unacceptable - I don't even know how to describe their actions anymore... This has got to be the most incompetent web host I've ever had to deal with in my life.
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 01:37 PM
I agree that they have now gone beyond the pale... but unfortunately, they are not even the worst host I have had this year. It is just a sad marketplace with a bunch of idiots that think they will be the next Microsoft or eBay by selling these services without any pride. Sell, sell, sell, oops! I pissed off all my customers this month? Let's see, only 13.2565% of them left, and I will pick up another 10.35651% every month, ok so I take a little hit right now, but no biggy... cost of doing business!
Posted by Insomniac, 08-16-2005, 01:43 PM
I opened up a TT and gave them a list of my domains. Here is the reply I got: This is bunch of ********. It is past 24 hours now and they are nothing but incompetant pieces of ****. Please someone tell me a good reseller host? In desperate need of a good reseller!!!!
Posted by Obry, 08-16-2005, 01:49 PM
They just copy & paste this since I got the exact same reply .... word-by-word...
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 01:53 PM
Yeah, they could just nnounce that on the forum... oh... nevermind.
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 02:03 PM
How about you "sponsor" some working f'ing servers at least! And do you really prefer that all of your angry resellers air your dirty laundry on forums like this? I would have been perfectly happy commiserating with the other RC resellers on the private RC forum until this crisis was over. Now you have alienated me and all the others. Good move.
Posted by dhaberer, 08-16-2005, 02:07 PM
Insomniac, i signed up with jodohost this morning. so far, the experience is similar to RC (back when they were good) as far as getting set up. I have noticed off the bat that their control panel is much more responsive and quick to perform operations such as creating new domains than RC's ever was. They also have a lot of extra features RC never had. I'm moving my first client over right now and hope to have everyone moved by the end of the week.
Posted by Insomniac, 08-16-2005, 02:11 PM
I checked out Jodohost, but they are only Linux. I want a windows server. Please someone tell me a reliable Windows Reseller host?
Posted by Obry, 08-16-2005, 02:12 PM
Yeah, I'm just finishing setting up my Jodohost account as well... all good except the Indian dude that called me to confirm my account that I couldn't understand a single word he was saying...
Posted by dhaberer, 08-16-2005, 02:13 PM
no they aren't jodohost is virtually the same as RC. Windows 2k3, RedHat Linux and VPS Linux. on windows they have all the same components and more.
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 02:36 PM
I've been trying to decide between DIY and Jodo. I have heard good things about both. I have heard more about Jodo lately, so I am curious why not DIY, or if it is just Jodo people being more vocal. Any RC refugees have recent or long-term experience with DIY? Thanks.
Posted by jdracy, 08-16-2005, 02:37 PM
Just got my reply on the status of the RC forums: Before this I was considering just moving email to another provider, but it's over now. Current possibilities I'm considering: JodoHost and Hostek. Hostek is a little more expensive, especially for MSSQL databases, and the CP is not as user-friendly, but service is rock-solid (personal experience with other clients who host there). JodoHost offers more database options and uses HSphere as the CP, but I don't have info about service and reliability. If anyone else has an opinion or experience with either of these, please let us know more.
Posted by Insomniac, 08-16-2005, 02:37 PM
I opened up another ticket to RC and asked about why will they bring the forum down, here is the reply I get. I mean wtf, I really dont want to be with a freakin host that dont even have a forum to keep up to date with the issues. I think there are bunch of incompetant fools working at that place who dont know nothing about developing customer relationships, let alone maintain the existing customers. Looking for a Windows Reseller Host, I hate to be back on the drawing board!!!!
Posted by rescenter, 08-16-2005, 02:52 PM
Actually I am pretty particular that jodohost does offer windows..
Posted by gsaunders, 08-16-2005, 02:58 PM
They offer HSPHERE which includes BOTH Windows and Linux. Last edited by gsaunders; 08-16-2005 at 03:02 PM.
Posted by gsaunders, 08-16-2005, 03:01 PM
I have to admit I ran into the same thing... I could barely understand a word he said when he called me. Not just his thick accent... but the line sounded bad... like a poor overseas connection. This is still a concern for me if I ever utilizize their anonymous support. I would not want my customers getting frustrated over a language barrier. I do like there willingness to communicate. Their forums are fairly open so anyone can examine the good and the bad comments there... except for one forum dedicated to reseller issues that the resellers don't want the general public viewing.
Posted by Insomniac, 08-16-2005, 03:06 PM
So far I have only heard good things about jodohost. I hope it is true.
Posted by dhaberer, 08-16-2005, 03:08 PM
well it's been more than a couple of hours since this message: Thanks for your patience. If you are not all ready aware, we have experienced issues with the hard drive raid array on our mail server. These issues required us to rebuild the mail accounts on the server. At present, we have about 75-85% of the accounts re-built. If you are experiencing problems accessing your e-mail (password) errors, than the account has not yet been re-created, however it is in queue and will be created sometime within the next couple of hours. We ask that you remain patient and let the re-create script do it's job. AND my clients are still without email. Somehow my accounts were created, but every one of my customers still have no mail. I'm wasting time talking trying to keep people happy when I could be spending it transferring them away to Jodo.
Posted by NS-Icon, 08-16-2005, 03:12 PM
Hi Insomniac, I would consider taking a look at some of the services provided by HostNexus, they provide great reseller hosting services.
Posted by dhaberer, 08-16-2005, 03:18 PM
just talked to RC again. The woman said the script creation is about 90% done and that it would be done in a couple more hours. Supposedly with all the new accounts being created (ya right), its having a hard time keeping up. This is BS. How is this a sliding timeframe? almost 2 full work days now without email. Everyone please stay away from reseller-center.com in the future and all current clients please do you best to move away. They can't treat their customers like this and continue to profit.
Posted by Obry, 08-16-2005, 03:26 PM
Yeah, also we'll probably loose all mail that was stored on the server too... I asked if it'll be recovered and they replied that they can't guarantee that... and I have customers who used Webmail exclsuiveley since they didn't want to use Outlook or anything like that... I'm a dead man...
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 03:44 PM
Sliding? how about totally fabricated and BS. They admitted early on that the script does not provide ANY progress status, and any estimates are purely guesses. And they have been guessing 75% to 90% done all day, and "a couple hours left" all day and last night. Completely fabricated.
Posted by Insomniac, 08-16-2005, 03:49 PM
we should all report them to Bad Business Bureau for fabricating and lieing to the customers. Lets make sure they go down hill too if we go. Lieing Basta*ds
Posted by jdracy, 08-16-2005, 03:51 PM
I have to agree. Their responses don't seem to be honest, and rather than forthrightly saying, "We screwed up", when the heat gets turned on they dig in their heels, get defensive, and finally pull the plug on all communication. This is no way to run a business!
Posted by dlrmartin, 08-16-2005, 04:00 PM
Hi jph! I already out of RC. I migrated all my customers to diy and jodo. I can tell you that, after my experience, jodo is better. diy has good uptime and boxes (jh too) but their support need much much work.... in the other hand jodo support is excellent. I'm not happy with diy support. martin
Posted by dlrmartin, 08-16-2005, 04:09 PM
may be rescenter member (may be Alan or Mike) could give us the answer... Alan/Mike, I used to appreciate you but selling RC to this guys really hurt me. I spent and spend unvalued hours due to problems since you sell RC. Now start Reseller-Network ? why start again when you had a solid company?? I'm curious and angry. I don't stop to spend money, time and hair since I forced to move...
Posted by Obry, 08-16-2005, 04:45 PM
Yeah, that was pretty messed up... especially the way they did it w/o any notice and covering their lies for so long... and still I hear people thinking about signing up with Reseller Network... why? just so it can get sold again and these people to be left in the exact same boat as they are right now?!?!?!?!?
Posted by jdracy, 08-16-2005, 04:49 PM
Having experienced a few months with the new RC crew, I don't blame Mike/Alan/etc. They probably had little or no choice. If you notice, the moment the new owners were involved, communication died. I don't know the behind-the-scenes story, but I try to be optimistic and will give them the benefit of the doubt. I would be looking at them, but particular features of their new plans don't match what I am looking for.
Posted by prairiestar, 08-16-2005, 04:56 PM
If you don't think that virtually every company out there has an exit strategy or will sell for the right price you are really fooling yourself. Any company you might signup with could be sold at any time...it's the way of the world. Customers are rarely brought into the process and asked their opinions. They are almost always the last to know. Alan and Mike provided great service and great support in the past. I'm particular they will in the future.
Posted by Obry, 08-16-2005, 05:23 PM
They did provide great support and all that but the way they handled things at the end was completely unnaceptable... I mean, they lied to us all when they said that they're still going to be around after the buy out and take care of customers which couldn't have been further away from the truth. If you still trust people like that and are willing to give them your money and rely on them for your business then I think you are the one fooling yourself. I understand that companies get bought out all the time but this has been a complete and total disaster and one big factor for all that has been their dishonesty and misscomunication. You make your choices.
Posted by Vortech, 08-16-2005, 05:30 PM
Does R-C still not have a posted SLA or anything? Maybe you could at least ask for a credit or refund for the mail being down so long. Might help a bit. But I don't think they have ever really had a SLA.
Posted by prairiestar, 08-16-2005, 05:38 PM
My guess is that everything they could say and do was defined in their sales contract. I don't think there was any lying...I think the relationship soured with the new RC guys and they were put out and not contractually able to say anything...I could be wrong, but I've seen it happen in other company sales. You're right we all make our choices. I wish you luck!
Posted by Obry, 08-16-2005, 06:27 PM
Ok, did they not say that they're (the old RC crew) still going to be part of RC after the buyout? They did. Did they stay a day longer after the migration started? No. Was this not a lie? You tell me. Anyways, I don't understand why you're trying to protect them given the fact that they screwed up royaly and keep doing so...
Posted by prairiestar, 08-16-2005, 06:32 PM
Not protecting...just have a different perspective of what went on.
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 06:49 PM
Obry, I am not protecting either, but my perspective is similar to prairiestar. I think chances are better than 50/50 that they meant everything they said, and then they were forced out of the new RC by circumstances or directly by the new people, and so then they decided to start over, doing what they have always done. It is their profession. They were (apparently) good at it, but they found themselves in a tight spot and sold out when the right deal came along. They probably saw it as an opportunity to "merge" and leap forward, and it turned out they were probably treated like toxic waste. Seems like they are starting over, and all power to them. Just hope they learned some lessons, and that they don't have to go through that again, for their own sake, and for the sake of their customers. (Also, a side note... I kinda hate that they are "reseller network" yet they sell "personal" plans that compete with their resellers directly! That doesn't sound like them, and I think it is a DUMB idea. They couldn't come up with another name to market their own shared hosting, and not mix reseller and individual sales under the same name!?)
Posted by dhaberer, 08-16-2005, 07:38 PM
there is a lot of assumptions in what you just said jph. for what it's worth, the old rc crew sold their clients down the river. what's to stop them from doing it again. history repeats itself as we've seen with this email fiasco and the new rc, so i'm going to assume that it will repeat itself with the old rc too.
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-16-2005, 08:06 PM
Actually we have had some line issues with our VoIP system and are looking to replace that. If you phone us through our toll-free # you'll find the call much clearer and easier to understand. We offer both chat & ticket support as well and I'm sure you'd find these 2 support methods very effective in getting problem resolutions.
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-16-2005, 08:33 PM
I have no idea why they are running the recreator scripts on their mail servers. it is the SLOWEST method of restoration. If they had backup, they could restore QMAIL's structure and data from it and have things running very quickly..
Posted by jph-, 08-16-2005, 09:00 PM
Can you tell the operative word? Also, if they had any redundancy, we probably wouldn't have noticed the crash.
Posted by gsaunders, 08-16-2005, 10:59 PM
The problem with redundancy is I believe HSPHERE only supports a mail relay that will basically queue up the mail which means we would definitely see the downtime waiting on a server to be restored. Maybe an HSPHERE expert can confirm if this is the case in regards to what HSPHERE (supports). According to DYI they say they have a system in place where if the primary mail server goes down the routers will automatically route all mail over to another box which gets all of the accounts copied over 3 times a day.... BUT no data is copied between them so if you roll over to the backup server you can send and receive mail, but all mail that is stored on the down server will be unavailable until that server goes back online. At least that is the way I understand it. I don't know if this is a "supported" HSPHERE setup or if it the way DIY have done it to bypass HSPHERE limitations. I really want to find out they BEST solution possible for keeping my clients email working 24x7.
Posted by Canadiana, 08-16-2005, 11:10 PM
Yes, I must say I'm not impressed with all the break downs over there.. not tomention the closed support tickets, disappearing posts and of course, the closed forum! They're making it obvious that they don't know what they're doing and have no clue how to treat clients... I mean how much do they expect clients to take..
Posted by IHSL, 08-16-2005, 11:32 PM
Our mail server redundancy has nothing to do with hsphere its self. It is custom to us, but not a complicated system at all. Many providers offer such setups, and it's just a case of asking. Simon
Posted by johnwinner, 08-16-2005, 11:48 PM
Finally the mail service is back for me but big surprise I did not receive any messages from the last 2 days???! Can someone confirm that all incoming messages were lost? Thanks RC!
Posted by Elmoo, 08-17-2005, 12:26 AM
Yes.. This is what i got from them :
Posted by muhan, 08-17-2005, 12:31 AM
I too am a disgusted reseller-center customer. The new reseller-center is just plain incompetant. To sum it up, they tried some pretty major maintenance on the only mail server during peak business hours. They also seem to have ZERO knowledge of HSphere as they are always waiting on PSoft to do something on the server for them while everyone's mail is not working. They also shut down their forums and trouble tickets don't seem to be doing anything. Alan and Mike at the old reseller-center were good technically, but they sold out on us, lied about the sale, and lied about continuing to stay with the new company. This wasn't a merger as they portrayed, but rather a sale. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that, but I prefer to go with a company that doesnt' have a history of selling companies and starting new companies that are in the exact same business. It feels too much like a pump and dump. I considered jodohost, but everytime I called, and I called many times over the past 2 months, I could not really understand the techsupport/sales guy on the other end. A few times I called and they answered "Hello?" like i called someones house by mistake. It took 3 minutes to finally get enough communication going to realize it was in fact Jodohost. Sounded like an Indian/Pakistani guy. I'm very hesitant to go with a company where I can barely understand the tech support guys. I have an account with Vortech which I will probably use now that I'm completely fed up with reseller-center. Their tech support guys were very knowledgable and answered my long list of questions. Anyone have a check list or info on transferring my whole Hsphere reseller account to another Hsphere provider? Seems to me the basics would be: 1. Recreate customers accounts 2. Move files 3. recreate email addresses 4. recreate databases. 5. Redirect my service domain DNS to new IP Am I missing anything? Is there a more automated or easier way to do a move like this?
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 01:08 AM
I can confirm that for MOST of the time over the last 2 days, the server was bouncing back messages to the sender, indicating permanent failures. This means unless the original senders decided to re-send the message, you will not get it. ...and the original sender probably would not re-try sending it manually, because it would have been bounced again, and by that time any normal person would assume that it will never work because they have the wrong address or something. Just another ridiculous aspect of the poor handling of the situation, and exactly the same problem they had last month during the "migration" outage... which (to go off on a tangent) actually had nothing to do with the migration, other than it complicated the recovery. that crash happened after the mail server had been migrated, and was very similar to this crash: not really explained, at first blamed on a bad fan, then just sort of shrugged off, and, of course cosmically bungled.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 01:15 AM
I have asked around a lot in the past, and have been told there is no automated or "bulk" way to move your accounts to a new host. Would be happy to hear if I was wrong! As far as your checklist, don't forget - rebuid your plans - any costomizations to your cp / login texts, etc. - there is NO way to move email passwords, so if you don't know them for all your clients, you better send out a mailing to each one telling them that you are going to change their password to "whatever" and explain that they will need that at some point when the old one stops working. - lots of fun crap like that. Last edited by jph-; 08-17-2005 at 01:18 AM.
Posted by frico, 08-17-2005, 01:38 AM
I have the same question of you muhan, the best way to migrate our accounts, I think that those steps are right, but I want to know for sure that there is no other simplier way.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 01:40 AM
oh and one other thing. In the past i have found it very difficult to use the same service domain name during a transition like that. I would recommend that you start off with a new domain name (maybe yourdomain.net instead of .com) and when everything is done, you can add your old "primary" domain as an alias of your new service domain name. That way you will be able to use both accounts pretty normally, and you don't have to try to switch yourself and your clients all in one gasp.
Posted by Maynard, 08-17-2005, 02:10 AM
When it comes to moving, even one domain, to a different host, hpshere really sucks; We're all way too far down the shoddy path by now; but if it's any consolation, there aren't necessarily any better paths upon which to have become befallen. The Grand Demise of webhosting was the seiche of "control panels", notably c-panel and hsphere, which have enabled complete idiots to run hosting companies; as pyramid schemes.
Posted by rescenter, 08-17-2005, 02:17 AM
I agree.. Control panels are great but you still need to know the guts of apache and such to provide good hosting..
Posted by Ackoo-jt, 08-17-2005, 02:24 AM
That is exactly correct gsaunders. We run hsphere and that is just one of the many great features it offers. As for the many customers who experienced this issue. It is a tough situation to be in. Most everyone has been there once. You just always hate to see things like this happen. Best of luck to all.
Posted by ubelt, 08-17-2005, 06:15 AM
I lost all my incoming messages too.
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-17-2005, 06:16 AM
Let me appologize for this. We are having a # of issues with our VoIP phone support system. There are latency issues that cause a delay in us hearing what you say (upto 1 or 2 seconds) as well as quality issues. At times there are volume issues and it isn't possible to hear us properly. We are infact changing our phone support system. If you however try calling us up via our toll-free #s, you won't experience this as they are routed via standard phone networks. We are an India-based company and at the moment phone support is only carried out from our New Delhi office. We have US staff as well as a US office but at the moment, no phone support is carried out from there. Phone operations from the US is something we plan to implement in the near future Also, phone support is only ONE medium we provide support through. We provide 24x7x365 live chat and ticket support also. Most customers prefer to use these two mediums and I have only heard positive feedback for them. We as a company also hire only quality and experienced administrators for both technical operations and support. Unlike most companies, we hire mainly level2 and level3 techs to staff our support desks. So you will be able to get good, technically acurate and fast support from us. I am sure if you search WHT you'll find testomonials to that.
Posted by stanj, 08-17-2005, 07:05 AM
Guys, if the current situation is the same as in the past when I was hosted by these guys at Vortech, I would recommend them without reservations. I never had a technical problem with them and wish I could have stayed with them. Their billing department made my overseas location payment authorizations unusuable however. But ieven if this part was totally inflexible for foreign accounts, all else for US based resellers would be perfect. Fast, reliable, stable, cheap, and the same features for the most part as R-C for $10 more/month. Their forum is very active with lots of expertise that helped me on many occasions without needing trouble tickets. Speaking of RC, I got up this morning(we are 8-11 hours ahead of US time) and found I could logon to the mail accounts and even had mail but later found no new mail was arriving and sending test messages between mail domains on the same server just did not make it all the way across the diskdrive and evaporated somewhere;>( Not happy. So I am reluctantly looking or a new reseller account( which I use only for my own web development and little traffic) which will take credit card billing from Russia but with my US card I will move....what a hassle! When Mike was handling the tech stuff, we still had a few problems but they were minor, normal problems and were handled with constant communications. I felt like it was a family. Stan St Petersburg
Posted by gsaunders, 08-17-2005, 08:29 AM
Yep... that's what I remembered... it seemed like the best email redundancy option I have seen used in an hsphere environment thus far. Simon has it ever had to kick in? If so how did it work out?
Posted by zaboss, 08-17-2005, 08:49 AM
It seems that there are problems again. No mails for 2 hours. I have sent several test messages that seemed to went through, except that they didn=t arrived. I wonder what is going on now.
Posted by DiegoSN, 08-17-2005, 09:15 AM
Same thing is happening to my accounts (and I'm guessing many others). This is the extremely helpful and informative response I got after submitting my TT: [Aug 17, 2005 7:31:01 AM] A: Our administrator is aware of this issue and is currently working with psoft to resolve it. We apologize again for any inconveniences you may experience. I'm much calmer now, of course.
Posted by -alb-, 08-17-2005, 09:19 AM
I am not receiving any test messages that I send to my service domain. I am a very patient person, and so are my customers, but his is getting absurd. I hate to have to move, but it looks like that is what it is going to come down to.
Posted by Vortech, 08-17-2005, 09:32 AM
FYI I am still working to make this better, we are testing Canada and UK as phone verify now and may add more latter. We hope to cut as much faxing and uploading to verify as we can.
Posted by frico, 08-17-2005, 09:47 AM
this is a bizarre situation!!! I can't believe it!!!! We can log to the mails but it seems it won't work and RC doesnt give us any updates!!! Question, to migrate to another service and mantein my service domain, how can I do? because, I'm thinking if in an hypotetic situation that we recover all our old mails, and we change the dns nameservers to point to other reseller service then wht happend with the RC accounts, they are going to be available to backup?
Posted by Maynard, 08-17-2005, 09:59 AM
This looks too much like the outage after the move. Expect RC mail to be hosed for at least two more days. (I tried to plonk a grin onto this post, but just couldn't bring myself to do it
Posted by zaboss, 08-17-2005, 10:04 AM
Frico - The ideal situation is to have a .com domain and a .net, especially in such cases. From my past experience I know that if you don't delete your account in RC HS, you still can access mail accounts using http://mail.somemaildefaultRCisusing.com and grab the mails that still hang in there. I had that experience in the past and I know I still have receive mail in those accounts even 2 weeks after I left them.
Posted by stanj, 08-17-2005, 10:18 AM
Hi "Vortech" When you get something working so I can use a US card from here in Russia....faxes just do not work...I would love to come back. If it was possible to get master authorization instead of monthly repeats of the verification process that would be good. The $10 difference between Vortech Matrix Reseller and RC is the most expensive "bargain" I ever got. Thanks Stan
Posted by Vortech, 08-17-2005, 10:33 AM
Yea that one is hard, since you have a US card the AVS would match if you have or use a US address. But since your in Russia thats not one on the countries we call yet to verify. We do have a lot of customers from Russia though. Have you thought about our upload option, no fax needed only a scanner or even a camera would work? The only other thing I could think of to get around the faxing or uploading would be to get your signedup with AVS match and call. I would have to get this approved by billing, but if you email or PM me I might be able to help you out the best I can.
Posted by prairiestar, 08-17-2005, 10:35 AM
The downward spiral continues..... I just got an email from 3:57 AM this morning. I appears that the que is about 4.5 hrs backed up. Still no communication from RC. This does look amazingly just like the last outage.I've called and can't talk to a live person. Left a message and haven't recieved a return call. You would think that they would change the message on their site to reflect a current status concerning this crap.
Posted by -alb-, 08-17-2005, 10:48 AM
I just got an update via email (thankfully, I don't use my email address at my service domain as my contact address for R-C) and it said that mail is backing up in the queue, but it is being received by the mail server. I sent an email over 2.5 hours ago and I still haven't received it. All email that was stored on the server was lost. While this doesn't come as a surprise to me, it is still a bit disappointing. I know that the mail server is not a storage device, but who checks their mail 24/7? Last time this happened, I refused compensation. All I had to do was submit a trouble ticket, but I didn't. I wanted to see them put some money into their infrastructure to make sure this didn't happen again. I think I am going to ask for a free month, FWIW. That would help offset the cost of the alternate mail solution that I am now forced to implement.
Posted by Mahmoud, 08-17-2005, 11:02 AM
They do reply on Tickets, last email from them about the mail server was on Tuesday 14.17 GMT update: another one today (Wednesday) at 14:24 GMT Last edited by Mahmoud; 08-17-2005 at 11:07 AM.
Posted by frico, 08-17-2005, 11:03 AM
I don't think that as a solution, I think I'm going to leave RC, there is no month retribution that it give me my two custumers back who left me and the one new test costumer that now is looking for a better service...
Posted by dhaberer, 08-17-2005, 11:05 AM
well i'm half way done moving accounts away from RC (though I only had 10 accounts with about 30 domains total). It's been a long 24 hours, but I do have to say that my experience with JodoHost has been pretty good. Here are some of the things that are much better at Jodo than RC that I've noticed so far: Email Spam and AntiVirus filters/blockers are available and completely configurable on a per mailbox basis (nice). Lot of utilities (easy apps collection) are availble for install from the hosting control panel. They actually use an up to date version of HSPhere Your charged based on actual usage not allocation (i think RC recently switch to this but not sure. I was always charged extra for overallocation). Servers are blazing fast in comparison to RC (great hardware such as 4 gigs ram on web servers and dual xeons). Email works! The only issue I've had so far relates to dedicated IP Addresses. Apparently they don't have any available on the server my sites are on, so I'm waiting for those to be added so I can get my sites with SSL set up properly. I understand getting more IP Addresses can take some time and they are probably getting slammed with all the RC business they're getting, so I'll let this slide as long as it's taken care of today. Fortunately, they left my ticket open until it's resolved unlike RC that always closed tickets just because they responded to it (without resolution).
Posted by Christa71, 08-17-2005, 11:29 AM
Can someone advise me please not directly related to the recent issues? I've been with RC for a year or so I think. The credit card on file expired recently - have a new one with new expiration date. My account was suspended because I hadn't added a new one in the allotted time. About 6 hours ago I paid through their make a payment page since I didn't have access to control panels. I've sent 2 messages through their contact forms with no response. I called and chose the billing option and no one was available. I called back and chose the tech support option and no one was available. How else can I get in touch with them? What would you do? I need to get my account reactivated - whether I move or not everything can't be down right now. And yes I know it's my fault for not entering the info earlier. I was going to do it Monday then all heck broke loose with the email server and I forgot. Thanks.
Posted by Mahmoud, 08-17-2005, 11:36 AM
try emailing: support at hsphereweb.com
Posted by Christa71, 08-17-2005, 11:44 AM
Thanks Mahmoud. Why didn't I think of that? I guess my brain is on overload with all that's happened.
Posted by stanj, 08-17-2005, 12:05 PM
With all the fun and games these last couple of days, we have only heard from RC customers but isn't R-C a part of VIP now so the question is "what is going on that side, do they get any better service?" Do they have a forum working? Still, over 12 hours of email access but no messages getting through or out..even between accounts on the same server. Stan
Posted by -alb-, 08-17-2005, 12:52 PM
By my estimates, I'd say mail is still about 4 hours behind. I just got a test message I sent at about 830am EST and it is nearly 1pm EST.
Posted by (Stephen), 08-17-2005, 01:37 PM
Vortech, On the credit card authorization issues, can you not add a field something like "Validated to (exp on card, or prehaps a month before so there is no lapse)" so they don't have to resend authorization each month for those cards? Just an idea, maybe it won't work, I don't know. Last edited by (Stephen); 08-17-2005 at 01:40 PM.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 01:38 PM
test note: outgoing mail went pretty quick to an external account. incoming mail ... still waiting. webmail seems down completely. This is new since last check. can't access the index page or the horde page or the dwmail page. Why those are all installed on the mail server anyway... seems silly. I guess it is the standard psoft config, but i would rather see them installed somewhere else, especially if the mail server is already overloaded, why also run webmail applications on the box?
Posted by Vortech, 08-17-2005, 02:07 PM
They don't have to verify every month even if they pay monthly. They only have to verify when they signup or change there credit card number. e.g. They signup up and pay per month or year if nothing changes they never have to reveify. For most customers its a once in 3 years thing if the visa or mc changes there card number. If they just change there exp date they do not have to reverify. You guys call them all right? But it's the languge thing that gets us doing it that way. Also for a country that has a high fraud rate calling sometimes does not do much good. How do you get around that?
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 02:14 PM
topic watch... c'mon guys, this is the place we RC people are trying to help and inform each other because our forum was shut down, This CC issue is getting a little... way off topic.
Posted by (Stephen), 08-17-2005, 02:15 PM
Yes we call, I did not think it needed to be done monthly, but reading one of those posts sounded like that for some reason. As far as the language, we find most speak english well enough to verify they actually placed the order, and we actually have staffers that speak other major languages as well. As far as te high fraud rate countires, we make sure the IPs and countries match, phone call verification, and I am not in billing, so I don't know the further steps there. However I think we should/could take this to another topic, it is good discussion and all, but not part of this thread. Edit: sorry for straying off topic there, it was brought up and I took it to far, my fault.
Posted by Vortech, 08-17-2005, 02:18 PM
True, jph sorry about that. Stephen, If you want start another post, maybe together we can helpp each other and find other ways. Not sure about you guys but we lost a CC account once. I for sure don't want to loss $10,000 again due to charge backs, thats not fun for anyone.
Posted by stanj, 08-17-2005, 02:20 PM
I was spending a lot of time verifying because it was required every month even though I had been on the system for a few years using the same bank card billing address in California but living in St Petersburg Russia. Had lots of phone calls back and forth over it. Maybe it is just the Russia address but it was a real pain to have my account suspended each time while it was being worked out. That is why I recommended your service to those inside the US and not us out the "Evil Empire" Its 10:15 p.m. still no email, still working and no food...good night I will write directly when I get email back. Stan Even if the Internet sucks here, the beautiful ladies here make up for it...no pun intended.
Posted by stanj, 08-17-2005, 02:26 PM
Sorry jph I got a little carried away waiting for my email to come back to the living, to connect me back to the real world. Well I guess not tonight..again. I am off to bed hoping the world is brigher tomorrow and my e-mailbox is full of orders. Stan
Posted by frico, 08-17-2005, 02:49 PM
yes, I have the same problem, is funny, I'm expecting that someone jump at me saying "jeje, you're punkd, it was only a joke" There are 3 mail servers at the Server Status Page, Are new? or it has been there for a long time?
Posted by Obry, 08-17-2005, 02:57 PM
Yes, WebMail has been down for me all day too and I have customers that only use that and needless to say they're screaming bloody murder since in their eyes mail is still down... :-(
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 03:04 PM
note that we can use other webmail. Two examples: 1. You can install a copy of dwmail on your own site (pretty cheap, and my preferred application). 2. You can use something like www.mail2web.com of course, now that our clients do not know about those options, and it is difficult to reach them, that is not a lot of help... but if they call, maybe suggest mail2web.com
Posted by mohmedsh, 08-17-2005, 03:10 PM
No there is only one email server mail.hsphereweb.com , others mail01.onlyhsphere.net and mail02.onlyhsphere.net is not for RC clients. You can still use http://www.mail2web.com/cgi-bin/login.asp?lid=0&il=0 but it is not acceptable for clients.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 03:11 PM
onlyhsphere.net" is a seperate cluster, not for use by our domains. I don't know if they have any accounts on that cluster or not, but that is not the cluster with the cashed mail server, and MOST if not all resellers were on the other cluster "hsphereweb.com". They did a lot of talk about adding a second mail server to the hsphereweb.com cluster as well (not the redundant one that they claim to have been adding this week, but just for additional capacity), but that never happened either.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 03:17 PM
hey moh! I know it is pretty micky-mouse and all, but in a pinch I would think clients would be glad to have any back door to their email. Don't you agree that mail2web is a viable emergency option, even for clients?
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 03:43 PM
I seem to be missing mail that was there last night! My outlook is set so that it leaves email on the server for 45 days. I received a test message last night (none today)... but now the box is empty.
Posted by mohmedsh, 08-17-2005, 04:05 PM
Ya i am glad there is an option for clients to get emails but as mentioned by several of my clients, they paid me to get the service working not to teach them a working around to achive simple tasks. Regardless the current emails delay if it is only a delay, lossing clients emails is leading us to hill, especialy with clients that uses only webmail and have no backups in any email clients.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 04:21 PM
OK the webmail pages are responding now, but when I try to log in to Horde, I get this:
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 04:27 PM
D'oh! Now I was able to log in. There is one test email in my test account box. it was sent only about 25 minutes ago, and it has arrived and accessible by both outlook and Horde. The sad part!.... test emails from EARLIER today (3 hours ago, never saw it arrive) and from LAST NIGHT (previously whitnessed in the mailbox) are missing! It looks like there was another "wiping" of the data or something. Good lord!
Posted by -alb-, 08-17-2005, 05:01 PM
Lucky you. I am waiting for an email I sent nearly 2 hours ago.
Posted by Christa71, 08-17-2005, 05:06 PM
Since I last posted STILL no contact. I've GOT to get this taken care of. I've filled out the contact forms twice. I've emailed twice from different addresses. I've called and left a detailed message. I've called to see if anyone would answer the other options. And most importantly I paid to reactivate it. I know they are busy. I know they have priorities. But it looks like they've cut off all communication. No one answers the phone. Deleted the forum. They don't return email messages. Anyone have any other ideas please?
Posted by sruli, 08-17-2005, 05:21 PM
I still can't get into Horde. I am still not getting mail. On the plus side, I've created an account at Jodo and starting moving my most critical customers there. I've given them the option of waiting it out at RC but told them that I have no actual, factual time estimate of when things will go back to normal. I sure hope things are better at Jodo. My plan is to move all of my accounts/sites gradually over the next month or so, assuming any stay with me after this fiasco.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 05:31 PM
try dwmail. It is installed and working, even though it is not on the index page of the mail server. go here: http://mail.hsphereweb.com/dwmail my point about my mail is that I got one message out of order, and all previous messages (whether I saw them in the box before or not) are gone. It is like more email was lost today, both new incoming messages and those that were there as of last night.
Posted by sruli, 08-17-2005, 05:40 PM
I'm not seeing much, if any evidence that email is actually flowing at this point, incoming or outgoing. Are you?
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 05:47 PM
actually no. Crap, I just realized that a previous "outgoing" test was not a valid test, i scewed up and sent it out another server. I have received one test email. it was sent at 4pm eastern, and received 25 minutes later or so. That is the only one in my test box. I have not sent a LOT of tests, trying not to overload things myself, but I have sent a few, and I have received no other messages that were sent before OR after that one.
Posted by billyxt4, 08-17-2005, 06:04 PM
First, let me start off by saying that losing e-mail is always a bad thing and I feel for any reseller who has to deal with this type of problem. I also feel bad for the host in this case because after reading this thread I can easily see what kind of customers they were dealing with. There are so many speculations in this thread and people talking about all types of mail backup systems when they seem to have very little knowledge of how H-Sphere works. Let's say you have a mail server that has about 100gb of data. Do you have any idea how much work is involved in backing that up daily? To backup the data you have to copy it or tar it to either an on-server drive or an off-network storage location. Doing this greatly increases the load on the box, sometimes to the point where qmail or other services will stop responding. You have to find a way to backup all of this data while keeping the load on the box down and also keeping all services up. On top of this, you have a mail server which is constantly creating and removing files, the backups will never be able to get it all in one shot. On a mail server it is pointless to do anything but daily backups because of how many changes there are in a 24 hour period. This means you would have to run through this entire process every single day. Then when it comes time to restore these backups, it still takes a good deal amount of time when working with this much data. Let's say that reseller-center lost the hard drive to a point where it was not recoverable. It's easy for you to say "well why didn't they just re-create the mailboxes". Do you have any idea in what is involved with doing this? You have to use Psoft's Physical Creator which is tool that was not designed very well. For example, if you have 100,000 mailboxes the creator tool has to hit the database up for every specific detail of every single mailbox including passwords, forwarders, auto responders, mailing lists and other data on the server (through java mind you) then contact the mail server and setup the structure. To do this alone can take well over 12 hours. This process also puts a high load on the mail server. Since customers want their mail up as soon as possible, you have to run mail services on the server while running the physical creator to restore mailboxes. So you have thousands of directories/files being created putting a high load on the server, on top of that you have incoming/outgoing e-mail, customers hitting webmail through PHP/HTTP which all drive the load up on the server. Eventually the mail server will become exhausted and mail will start queueing up because it's coming in faster than it can be delivered. For people questioning why Psoft is always involved, there is a simple answer. Hsphere was developed by Russian programmers and doesn't follow the same general logic that most control panels do. It's a very hard system to learn and it's not very well documented. The main problem is that the whole backend is java driven and it's almost impossible to find out what is really going on as opposed to cpanel where you can simply look at SH scripts. Psoft is also very picky about their support, if you don't do something exactly the way they want/need than they will refuse to support it. Another problem is that Psoft is based in Russian there is a lot of difference between time zones, American business hours are during their off hours. This leads to a great deal of delays. Anyone who has dealt extensively with Psoft knows what I am talking about. Hsphere is a decent control panel, but really has some flaws. It sell's very well because it appeals highly to resellers. I think that it's really coming along, but there are many problems with the backend that need to be addressed. I guess what I am saying is that I am tired of seeing customers jumping all over hosts when they don't understand all of the work that needs to go on behind the scenes to keep servers running properly, especially when you are dealing with software such as h-sphere. It's so easy for someone to be a back seat driver and tell hosts what to do in hind sight, but it's really not their place to do so. I will say this once, never trust a host with important data.. I don't care who they are. If you are losing money/clients because of lost data than you should be smart enough to back that data up to a local computer. There are many methods provided by H-Sphere to do this. I'm not familiar with Mike and Allan from the old reseller center, but have seen some posts in this thread regarding them starting another business. Personally I would be weary of this for two reasons: 1. They sold the company and left their customers in the dark 2. It's very likely they have a no-compete contract with the new RC owners and may very well end up being sued over it. Last edited by billyxt4; 08-17-2005 at 06:18 PM.
Posted by Insomniac, 08-17-2005, 06:15 PM
After 2 days of hell, I have finally transfered to JodoHost.com. This guy Maheep at Jodohost support helped me a lot in transfering my domains, I was using their Livechat feature. Not bad at all. I must insist, LEAVE reseller-center now before it is too late. This management and support is incompetant and nothing but liars. I had great experience until the management was changed. This management can go to hell. Insomniac
Posted by Christa71, 08-17-2005, 06:15 PM
Okay granted all this is time consuming, hard, and expensive. However writing a two line forum post that says: "Sorry for the continued delay. We are still working on it. More details shortly." every couple hours isn't. Nor is a full report with the mistakes, what they've learned and what they are going to do to avoid the problem next time AFTER it all calms down. That's why the outcry and exodus. No communication. Not even a 2 liner. Nor is making sure you have a backup before you start doing things like replacing hard drives. If doing a backup will overload your server it isn't the backups fault it's because you have too many accounts or data for the server configuration.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 06:18 PM
sorry billy. no sympathy here. They had an almost identical email crash last month, and they made all kinds of claims about how that recovery was especially hard, and it would not be that bad if it happened again, and they were doing everything reasonable to be ready for another incident like this, etc. I am a fairly technical guy, and I understand your analysys, but I don't care. This is a business problem more than a technical problem. Other hosts have employed better backup and relay schemes even within hsphere. This could have also been better if they didn't overload the server. And, you say that they needed to put it online during the recovery, and I say no they didn't it made things worse. If they had some relay server or backup server, it should have handled or qued up the messages, and they should have allowed them to queue up offline. the way they did it, we had long periods where emails bounced with permanent failures.
Posted by billyxt4, 08-17-2005, 06:25 PM
I'm really not sure where you got this info. The RC staff had posts all over the forum as soon as the problem occured and there were updates throughout most of the night. You know, I really have to laugh when I see customers who are paying 20 bux for a reseller account acting like they own/run a webhosting company. If you know it all and have these great solutions than why not start a hosting company yourself and run it the way you want instead of playing owner because you paid for the cheapest host you could find to rake in a few extra bucks but complain about their service constantly Last edited by billyxt4; 08-17-2005 at 06:30 PM.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 06:32 PM
gee... sounds like a guy with an axe to grind. nice disguise, billy-1-post.
Posted by Insomniac, 08-17-2005, 06:41 PM
I bet you are one of the loosers working at RC. If you can't get it done...just say so, dont act like you know it all. Incompetant jackass
Posted by Obry, 08-17-2005, 06:44 PM
Thank you! That's why we're PAYING THEM so we don't have to have much knowlege of how H-Sphere works. They are supposed to properly maintain and support it but it looks like THEY DON'T KNOW HOW H-SPHERE WORKS!!! Again, that's why we're paying them so they can provide us with reliable service. If their mail server crashes, it is their responsibility to recover it. I don't care if they need to walk on their hands to back all that up - they need to figure it out and do it. They've chosen to get in this business, it is their responsibility to handle all these things so we, the paying customers, won't have to worry about that. Many other hosts, including the previous RC staff are able to manage HSphere just fine. Also, I'm not paying PSoft, I'm paying Reseller Center - it is their responsibility to deal with Psoft. True. For the 500th time, that's why we are paying the host, so we don't have to understand in that great of a detail how things work. Otherwise, I would start my own hosting company with my own servers. And how exactly are we supposed to back up all of our customer's e-mail? This is what everybody is complaining about now - lost mail. I have backups of all my customer's websites and I can restore them in a heartbeat (Internet connection permitting of course) but all their lost mail I cannot. No argument here.
Posted by jph-, 08-17-2005, 06:56 PM
If his English wasn't so good I would have guessed that Billy = Boss. But I think Boss got canned a while ago anyway, hadn't heard a peep from him in weeks even before the forum was closed.
Posted by billyxt4, 08-17-2005, 07:03 PM
I'm not trying to start a war here, I just wish that people would look at the bigger picture instead of jumping the gun and making assumptions so quickly. I got out of the hosting business a while ago, the whole industry has really took a change for the worse. these days anyone with a couple hundred bucks to spare can start a hosting company, most of them are based on lies.
Posted by freddieb, 08-17-2005, 07:06 PM
This was a site setup by Mike & Alan with an outside host so that if the main site went down resellers could get updates regardless.
Posted by JerryVT, 08-17-2005, 07:12 PM
I have had enough w/RC! 3 hours ago opened an account w/JODOhost , set up/built MySql DBs and now transferring files through FTP. It's going to be a lot of work but new RC duds left me no choice!
Posted by Christa71, 08-17-2005, 07:16 PM
Billy, So you obviously were there. The fact is after the initial announcement that there was a problem there were 2 or 3 update posts up until about midnight. Then nothing until like 6 or so at which approximate time they closed the forum. 2 or 3 posts in 16 hours isn't all over the forum. Especially for those who had customers waiting for information. We don't have a reseller business. We signed up with RC because of their previous good reputation as found here and the features like multiple domain hosting. We aren't trying to get rich "pretending" we are a hosting company. We are trying to run a real, offline business. Why is it when things go wrong people throw back the $20 argument. "If you weren't so cheap then this wouldn't have happened." Number 1 what about those paying $85 a month - it happened to them too. Number 2 are you admitting that $25 only buys crappy service? If that's so then the fault is on the hosts selling it for that price versus the consumer sold into believing it's a good product/service. With many hosts $60 extra a month doesn't get you any more redundancy, more reliable servers, better bandwidth, etc. It's just more features. So how much does solid hosting cost? And if you get the same *core* for $60 more what have you really bought?
Posted by frico, 08-17-2005, 07:50 PM
how did you do it? did you use the same service domain or you use another domain at JODOhost?? PD: Billy, I think that my 5 years old boy knows that backup is one of the most important things in computer business, and RC wasn't able to restore old mails, accounts and configuration are one thing, but we are talking of business mails here, so please, all your theory is great, but come on, we are in the real world here, and a 2-times failure at the same server in a short period of time is unacceptable. Last edited by frico; 08-17-2005 at 07:57 PM.
Posted by prairiestar, 08-17-2005, 07:54 PM
Billxt4, For not wanting to start a war, your words speak loudly that maybe you do. I'm one of those $85 a month people. I don't resell to the general public. I provide hosting and email for my web development, software development, or network customers. Selling hosting for a living has no appeal for me. This is an add on for my regular IT customers. My hope is I have a little more control over their hosting and email services. I don't make any money selling hosting. Does this mean that I shouldn't have expectations that things are going to work. Does this mean I should put up with a lack of communication skills? If I failed to communicate during problem times with any of my development or network customers, they would be pissed and I would deserve the fallout. There will always be problems in the IT business...how we communicate and show respect for our customers is how we weather the storm. I've been in the IT business for more than 25 years and held jobs covering everything from computer operator, to programmer, to CIO. I've seen, heard, or used every excuse, lie, exageration, or partial truth you can think of. In the end the only thing that ever works is the truth and plenty of meaningful, respectful communication. This is the main fact that I've brought up in the RC forum during the last outage and during this outage. Talk to me and give me the facts. I'm a big boy and can handle it. There are other RC customers other than me who don't resell...they use the service for development, control and a multitude of other reasons that have nothing to do with reselling hosting. I would guess that I have more IT experiance than any of the staff at most hosting companies. That doen't mean I have any desire to own or run a hosting company. I just want my customer sites to be available and their email to work. That's what I pay the hosting company to provide. If I have to spend more to make that happen I will. Hell, maybe someone out there will get smart and build a service for folks like me and provide the world class service I'm looking for. I surely pay for it. I've sent more trouble tickets and made more forum posts in the last 2 months than I did the prior 18 months with the old RC management. I'm not a whiner or a complainer. I just want things to work as they should and when there is a problem I want communication.
Posted by (Stephen), 08-17-2005, 08:00 PM
Just a bit on info, backing up even 400GB of data is not really that complex, it just takes the right tools, the right tools take the right investment, and even then the investment requires the right people running it. That is the way backups work, or fail.
Posted by Maynard, 08-17-2005, 09:02 PM
THAT is the fallacy; and it has just been proven for those whose minds can't grasp it in theory. Running the mail services DELAYS the restoration of user mail. User mail does not function properly, or even at all, until the configuration files are fully created by the psoft script. What happened this last week was that the smtp host was delivering 5xx permanent failure responses to all domains which the script hadn't processed yet; and the script wasn't running very fast because of all the server activity. WAY more than 18 hours it took; and caused considerable more damage than if the services had remained offline until properly configured.
Posted by Groobash, 08-17-2005, 09:16 PM
What forum? I'm done with RC. The first outage was one thing... this second one shows the beginning of a pattern that I'm not willing to bet my hard won customers on. The only reason I didn't move yet was that it's a lot of work, but now I believe it's a certainty, so might as well get it over with. Cutting communication by dumping the forum was the last straw. See ya RC! Good riddance.
Posted by Maynard, 08-17-2005, 10:15 PM
Closing the forum sent all the griping over here. That wasn't very clever now was it?
Posted by The Gunner, 08-17-2005, 11:26 PM
I too have been quite upset over RC, especialy for removing the forum, But they just did something that suprised me. I just sent a TT and in LESS then 5 minutes they fixed the problem and replied to the TT. That has to be the fasted response to a TT I have ever exprienced anywhere with anyone.
Posted by Insomniac, 08-18-2005, 12:22 AM
I canceled my account with RC after doing all the backups. I also had a forum and I did backup of that as well, but phpBB did not do the backup correctly. I realized that when I tried to restore it. Is there anyway that RC will be able to retrieve the database back and send it to me? I will pay for the data recovery.
Posted by rescenter, 08-18-2005, 12:42 AM
Just so everyone knows.. We do not have any non compete with the new owners of RC.. Been down that road once never again.. Also we will not be selling the new company.. Selling RC was a very big mistake.. Sometimes things seem better on paper..
Posted by jph-, 08-18-2005, 12:50 AM
Figured, and I believe you. Nobody would be so blantantly competing if they were exposing themselves to a suit. ...and even though you say you won't sell again, and I believe you don't intend to, people have to get over the fact that it happens. Businesses change, owners have lives that change, people just have to deal with change. Just one note while I got your attention though... I find it odd that you are selling end-user accounts (CHEAP!) and reseller accounts under the same name. As a reseller I hate to see my host competing against me under the same name. Just my 2 cents.
Posted by gsaunders, 08-18-2005, 01:04 AM
Don't know if you realize it, but Jodo does sale non-reseller accounts as well. Not trying to discourage you at all... just making sure you knew since it is a concern for you.
Posted by Canadiana, 08-18-2005, 01:07 AM
Billy, how come every other reseller host can do this? I would understand if RC was a small shack of a host.. but they're a reseller ok.. they know what kind of business they're getting into.. if you have 100 clients you're probably supporting at least 1000 accounts right there.. with numerous data and load on your servers.. if they wanted to be cheap and have only one email server then figure out a way to get everythign done without it being down for TWO days. Until you've been in our situation where you're helpless, getting yelled at by each individual client, losing clients over lack of communication and having to LIE pretty much by making up "server" issues you have no clue about you can't judge any of us for our reaction... when it rains it pours.. I do feel bad for them but also I hope they lose enough clients to reduce that 100g of space so they can manage it easily on that unreliable server they have. Get a backup email server!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm looking to move as well. rescenter.... you guys weren't that great either.. I'll never forget the week you were down and unanswered tickets with staff that didn't know much ( except for Allan! ) I was originally happy you sold it but these new guys are to terrible, they really make you guys look good... I will give you props for LISTENING and not shutting down communication in the forums.. although a workign phone number would have been nice and not 5-6 disconnected numbers some that were listed on your website..! Hope we've all learned something but I doubt I'd move to you guys, I need people like me who actually care about their clients and are into quality not necessarily quantitiy.
Posted by jph-, 08-18-2005, 01:27 AM
Oy, in all my looking around, i think I forgot that factoid. I mean, I am not really "competing" with a real host or reseller, but occasionally I pick up a client or a potential one that comes back at me with these comparison costs, and it is a host that is overselling their resources cheaper than we could. I am not in the bulk business, and that is not how I try to sell, but it is just a little harder when the host themselves are supressing the costs of the services we are trying to resell for them, and we can't even tell the client that there is honestly ANYthing different about the actual hosting because it is the same company! So then you emphasize personal service and whatnot, and then you almost have to say that the host doesn't provide good customer service, which is hopefully not true, and why would you be using them if they were bad... it is all just icky.. 'nough said.
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-18-2005, 06:37 AM
Let me say that at least for us, the revenue generated through reseller sales exceeds the revenue generated for us from shared accounts. Also, only 20% of the end-user accounts on each of our servers (at this point of time) are sold by us. The remaining 80% are sold by resellers. As a company, the success of our resellers is important in our success. I have seen too many resellers signup with us and close their accounts within 1 or 2 months because they didn't have the time to build their business. However the ones that have been successful continue to grow, upgrade to higher plans and contribute more revenue to us. We have a lot of large resellers on our PlatinumHost plan. We have introduced many unique features primarily to boost the sales of our resellers. Look at it this way as well. Even if you weren't a reseller with us, you'd be competing with our shared plans. The market is just so vast with so many players and potential customers that at least I do not consider this competition.. Last edited by Yash-JH; 08-18-2005 at 06:40 AM.
Posted by jdracy, 08-18-2005, 11:34 AM
I am not sure that RC email problems have been cleared up. I just received one from yesterday, and others I should have gotten yesterday never did show up. Anyone hear anything from the management-in-hiding?
Posted by gsaunders, 08-18-2005, 11:56 AM
My emails are going very well. Pretty much instant. I just tested again and yes... it went right through from one of my external accounts. Much better.
Posted by jdracy, 08-18-2005, 12:00 PM
Probably just some fallout from yesterday, then.
Posted by -alb-, 08-18-2005, 12:35 PM
I didn't get an email that I sent yesterday, but I did get a test that I just sent. Makes you wonder if the queue was flushed.
Posted by jph-, 08-18-2005, 01:03 PM
If your individual plans are already a small percentage, why not charge more or reduce the advertised resources? Mainly, Yash... yes there is a lot of competition out there, and yes I like to keep my hosts anonymous to my clients, so this doesn't actually come up often. BUT I would like to be ABLE to be open with a client who asks, tell them who my host is and that they are great guys, and I never want to have to say anything negative about them to any client. But how can I do that when I need to charge them double what you charge for a plan, and now they will see that and it makes the whole thing weird. You have every right to be in both businesses, and do them any way you want, but would it be so hard to do them under separate names? Thanks for listening Yash! (and by the way, how "anonymous" are your services for resellers?)
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-18-2005, 01:24 PM
You do not have to charge double what we are charging. I've seen resellers charge even lesser than we do. The larger you are, the better your profit margins will be. And really the market is so vast that you are never competing price to price with us or any hosting provider. Service plays a big role and resellers with their local presence can capitalise on that. Keeping our shared & reseller services under one brand is a strategy we employed quite successfully. I wouldn't like to go into the details of that but let me say that most HSphere hosts do sell both shared and reseller services under the same brand I'd say our reseller services are as anonymous as you can get in reseller hosting. This has been discussed on our forum and you canr ead through some of those topics. If I were a reseller, I would not tell my clients I was one unless specifically asked. And even if asked, I would not tell them my service provider. Our shared services are not a threat to your reseller business with us. I can give you my assurance on that. The revenue generated via shared and reseller services are equally important to us Last edited by Yash-JH; 08-18-2005 at 01:27 PM.
Posted by jph-, 08-18-2005, 01:28 PM
This is where we disagree, and maybe you are not catching my meaning. I cannot sell at your costs or less. I do not plan to get that big, and that is not my business model. Thanks for your response, and maybe we just need to disagree a little bit. "tsall good.
Posted by Obry, 08-18-2005, 01:34 PM
I'm with jph on that... if I was selling $6.95 plans with 10GB traffic and 400MB storage, I'd make just enough to cover my monthly bill with you and my merchant fees if I was to fill up my account and maybe have enough left to buy a carton of cigarettes. And yes, you are competition when a customer asks me who my host is. I'm not trying to fool myself saying I'm real web hosting company because I'm far, far from it and I like to be straight up with my customers when it comes to that. So when they go to Jodohost and see the plans you offer, they'll just sign up with you and then even maybe start doubting why am I charging them what I do for web development (this is my primary business, hosting is just a complement - not really something I'm trying to get rich doing but something to bring me some residual income to cover some of my other smaller business expenses).
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-18-2005, 01:34 PM
Sure, many resellers sell at 3 times what we may charge on shared hosting and yet are very successful because they bundle it in with web designing and other such services. It really depends on your model. Our growth and margins on shared hosting are based on volume. You can also price at what we do if you want your profit based on volume. Your initial profits may be low, but as you grow they get much bigger. It depends so much on what your goals are. I'd repeat what I said before. Regardless of whether you choose us or another reseller host as your service provider, our shared packages will always be in the market. It makes no difference if you are with us or another host in that sense. But why not be with the host that gives you an array of unique value-added features that you can exploit to boost your sales & profits?
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-18-2005, 01:50 PM
Every host when they start up has to choose whether to go for the smaller client base, higher margins per account approach or the volume-based growth approach with lower per account margins. It was no exception for us either We too when we first started out had very low profits to begin with. Infact most hosts start out in negative including us. But we did achieve reasonable volume very shortly and were able to turn our shared services into a highly profitable source of revenue. There are alot of hosts selling much cheaper than us but yet we do not feel threatened. I see no reason why you as a reseller should feel threatened either. A business model that suits your goals and your style of business is what you should adopt. What hosting effectively boils down to is how you reach your potential clients and how good your services are (in both support & reliability)
Posted by jph-, 08-18-2005, 01:53 PM
Yash, look... I accept that you want to be in both businesses, and that you are not going to change your marketing for me, and I add that to my considerations in choosing a host. It does not put you out of the running, I just don't like it. Can you just accept the truth of my situation? It is like I am a Ford dealer, and Ford is selling cars directly for about the same as my cost. I would not put up with that. On the other hand, I wouldn't have much to say if Toyota sold for less. At least then I could make up some BS about my cars being better or something. And yes, if I was a car dealer I could also make money on services and incidentals... or as they say in the car business "I loose money on every sale, but I make it up in volume". but if the provider itself (Ford) is going to offer the same cars at a VERY competitive price under the same name, why would I choose to be a Ford dealer? It just makes it more difficult.
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-18-2005, 02:06 PM
When did I not accept the truth in your situation? I am putting my point on the table and where we as a company stand on the concerns that our resellers raise about us marketing shared services. That's where I'd disagree with you. As a reseller you are selling your own services under your own brand, with your own business model and your own costs. Your services provider is simply providing you with the raw services. You as a host are selling the final product. Your service provider may have a subdivision under which they also sell final products but in such a vast and diverse market, that shouldn't be of concern. Price to price competition effectively doesn't exist. A host that can pull potential clients to his site first will win. I have been in this industry for a while and I am just giving you my experience/advice related to this. What you wish to do is of course your decision and I totally accept your point of view
Posted by jph-, 08-18-2005, 09:07 PM
OK, then why don't you charge more for your individual plans? You have a good service, and price is not the deciding factor, so charge more so your resellers don't look like (or feel like) they are gouging their customers. Like I said, when the host does cheap individual sales, they are suppressing the selling costs of their resellers (at least the small ones that might not want to depend on the veil of anonymity.) I don't lie to my customers. They know I don't have their servers in my basement. I tell them that I buy services and resources in bulk and sell them to clients at reasonable costs. I do not claim to be the cheapest, but I don't wan to look like I am gouging them (which I am certainly not) for identical services they could get from the source for cheaper. Yash, please, I am taking this farther than I want to because you are trying to convince me that I don't care, or that I shouldn't, and I do a little bit, and I think that is reasonable. That's all.
Posted by hafa, 08-19-2005, 04:14 AM
I Second these sentiments! 4 days with no sleep and had to hire two people to move 160 domains and 16 huge databases and I'm not done yet. I estimate that I've lost nearly $5000 so far and stand to lose much more in the near future. Once all is moved and my account is closed, I'll be looking for every possible option to persue reasonable recompense. contract or chances of success be da&ned; it's a matter of principle.
Posted by zaboss, 08-19-2005, 05:21 AM
Here we go again...
Posted by The Gunner, 08-19-2005, 05:31 AM
I cant frickin believe it all mail is down again!
Posted by MstrHost, 08-19-2005, 08:17 AM
I have had DIY along with RC for several months. DIY has been responsive in the past, but lately seem to be having some problems, so I can NOT recommend them. I have had a TT open for over a week just to get an IP address assigned, and leaving voicemail didn't help. There is something funky going on with them and Authorize.net right now too. While jodohost reviews look good, I'd like something north america based. Any other recommendations?
Posted by stanj, 08-19-2005, 08:28 AM
Well, mine is up which is the good news, the bad news is that no mail reaches my mailbox. I guess we are just expecting too much: being able to log on AND actually get/send mail is just being greedy I think they installed a SPAM filter in backwards, yesterday I received no legitmate mail but many spam messages which we did not get many of before. Now I can't even get spam.
Posted by The Gunner, 08-19-2005, 08:49 AM
It came back about an hour after I posted. I too got a bucket load of spam, after checking my settings I found it was set back to the default setting and I had it set for aggressive, you might want to check your settings.
Posted by ubelt, 08-19-2005, 10:24 AM
Any of you had their emails restored? We lost some important mails.
Posted by frico, 08-19-2005, 10:34 AM
I don't know about everyone but I'm recieving mails since yesterday, all the old mails were lost, here I post the mail that RC send 2 days ago:
Posted by igotdreams, 08-19-2005, 11:47 AM
If anyone needs migration services, then we can handle them for you. The hardest part is making sure you have all the correct passwords and usernames for things such as email and domain names. More than likely You should have all the Hsphere passwords, database usernames and passwords. Here is a checklist of things that should be done to migrate a site. I put them in order. Keep in mind you should already have your new reseller-plans up. - Setup Account on NEW HOST - Configure Billing - Setup Emails (forwarding, autoresponders, alias etc) - Configure Web Options ~ Turn on resources like programming langauges etc ~ Do not turn on shopping carts or forums ( unless you know you should delete the files and database, becuase you should be FTPing these or creating SQL scripts to re-install them) ~ Configure Directory Indexes if used ~ Configure Redirects ~ Add MIMI types - Configure Programming Langauge specific resources - Create database - Run SQL database creation script (from backup) - FTP Files - Do not forget those .htaccess, phpini files - Make sure to password protect those directories again - Create those subdomains, extra domains, stop gap domains etc. - TEST SITE through IP, Instant Domain Alias etc. (keep in mind some things will not work until the domain name points, know which things should not work. Like forums, carts, SSL, sendmail forums etc - Once you have a MIRRORED environment, then you can login and point the client domain to the new location. - If you are using your own custom DNS settings through your domain, then wait till all accounts are created then login into your registrar and change the IP's for your domain. - Generate new SSL if needed - TEST TEST TEST General Problems you should have - Site Studio sites need recreated - Web Stats will be restarted (note you can move the files and have them as a reference) - New IP's & Instant Access Domain Alias for some clients that use them - You will need to generate a new SSL Cert I hope this helped.....
Posted by jph-, 08-19-2005, 12:00 PM
I still can't get over this. If they had left the server offline during the rebuild, we wouldn't have lost any new mail (or not much, because outside servers would have kept trying). But instead, while the server was still not configured, they opened the flood gates and got our mail bounced. And because they did that, the restoration which would have taken 9 hours (3 hours for each 1/3)... instead it took 32 HOURS! Even after that, it was bumpy. I have a strange list of test emails with some missing from the middle, when the server was supposedly back on.
Posted by IHSL, 08-19-2005, 12:16 PM
If you requested an IP, with full justification, it would have been assigned. If you did not request it for SSL, then we do not assign the new dedicated IP. I'd suggest contacting us about this, not posting in an unrelated topic in WebHostingTalk.com Simon
Posted by hafa, 08-19-2005, 03:10 PM
Full justification? Since when should a customer need to justify something as commonplace as a dedicated IP? Assign it, charge them and be done with it. The reason for it is irrelevant. Provide immediate service for normal requests with no questions asked or your customers will begin looking elsewhere for someone who will.
Posted by Vortech, 08-19-2005, 03:16 PM
The reason is not irrelevant. As an ISP or hosting company they or we have to justify the usage for every IP. Just a plan old web site does not need an IP. The only time you need it is SSL and anonymous ftp. If your not using ether of those then you really don't need an IP. You also really don't need an IP to view your site before DNS is done ether since it gives you stop gap domains. So DYI or anyone else asking a customer to justify there IPs is only following ARINs ( arin.net ) rules for the IPs they were given. If everyone did this we may not have such a big need for IPv6 as it is. We do give out the IPs our self as the customers ask for them, but we also do an audit every 3 months and if the customer is unable to justify the IP we have to change them back to a shared IP. I wish it was as easy as saying sure hares an IP pay us. Last edited by Vortech; 08-19-2005 at 03:26 PM.
Posted by IHSL, 08-19-2005, 03:24 PM
Since our terms of service and contracts said so (which happens to be day one of DIYHosting being opened). We do not just hand out IP's to everyone, for any reason. If we did: we'd have no way to get additional ones, as we ourselves would have no justification to get them. It is the same policy as is exercised with the vast majority of hosting providers; especially the providers that want to carry on being able to get new IP's in the future. Thank you for the lecture on how I should run my company. I assume you have never run a hosting company, or you would realise how bizarre and naive your comments are. Simon
Posted by hafa, 08-19-2005, 03:35 PM
OK So perhaps the comments were a bit bizzarre and naive . Chalk it up to supressed hostility from having to deal with arrogant and imcompetant hosting companies (present company excluded). One aspect of the comment still stands, however: "Provide immediate service..." If you require that they provide justification, then respond to them with an email and TT response letting them know. Far be it from me to tell anyone how to run their company, but listening to customers such as the original poster would go a he!! of a long way towards creating some good will. Everyone in this business would be well served by remembering the axiom "the customer is always right even when they're wrong". FWIW, I'm a consumer (read customer, albeit not DIY's) not a host. As such, I expect respectful feedback in a timely fashion for all of my requests, be they bizzarre and naive or not.
Posted by IHSL, 08-19-2005, 03:44 PM
Our IP / sales request form prompts for a justification. Whatever the first justification given to us by the customer happens to be, is what we analyze. If it isn't for an SSL certificate, the cert is not given. Example 1: One customer asks for an IP for "seo purposes" (popular request). He would not get the IP, and would be given the reason why in the same ticket. Example 2: User states the IP is for SSL. He gets the certificate, and we add the site to our quarterly SSL audits, to make sure it's being used in line with the justification. Simon
Posted by hafa, 08-19-2005, 03:50 PM
So if the user fails to provide a justification, then his ticket just languishes? No autoresponse email that an error occured? No follow up? Are open and uncompleted trouble tickets not audited as well?
Posted by ubelt, 08-19-2005, 03:57 PM
Here's a response I got from Reseller Center about the old mails: Assigned To: Mark C.(Support) A: Monday a complete loss of the mail drive occurred. It was completely wiped and non restorable.
Posted by hafa, 08-19-2005, 04:13 PM
Not surprising that these dolts had no backups. Someone should introduce the concept to them.
Posted by rescenter, 08-19-2005, 07:54 PM
hrmm.. The ips I receive simply need to be in use to be "justified" However I do pay a small fee for each ip I use.. I believe SEO to be a perfectly good justification for Dedicated IP.. SSL is not the only reason to need an IP.. For example the hsphere system itself requires a dedicated IP for FTP Server and Anonymous FTP..
Posted by jph-, 08-19-2005, 08:25 PM
hey rescenter, Just an observation here. You might be better off if you changed your nickname or started off with a new one around here. Not sure you want to be saddled with that connection any longer. And on the other side you might inadvertently make "those other guys" look good by contributing helpful information and whatnot.
Posted by Vortech, 08-19-2005, 08:57 PM
But only Anonymous FTP, not just for basic FTP. SEO will not fly with arin, but if you don't get your IPs from arin it's not worry until the provider looks in to why you have so many ips. rescenter you don't get your IPs from arin so maybe your not aware of there rules.
Posted by (Stephen), 08-19-2005, 09:13 PM
We also require justification for IPs, SEO is not valid according to ARIN, justification is a common and very acceptable process. ARIN requires it, so it gets shifted down to the people using them to provide such justification.
Posted by IHSL, 08-20-2005, 09:19 AM
If the user doesn't put in a justification (valid or otherwise) then he/she is asked for one, in all cases. I know for particular that the user in this topic was given a response, as all IP requests in our system are resolved, complete with appropriate responses. Precisely. I can only assume that the people arguing the case for free-flowing IP's, have never had to justify them, or have ignored the guidelines put forward by ARIN and/or their datacenter. We have over 1200 IP's in our system, and each one is subject to justification, as well as the quarterly audit. I agree, to some extent. I am still shocked, however, that the new owners of Reseller Center didn't have Mike and Alan sign an NCA. Simon Last edited by IHSL; 08-20-2005 at 09:25 AM.
Posted by rescenter, 08-20-2005, 11:10 AM
Ok.. Now I understand.. I have never received IP's from Arin.. Did not realize they were so strict now.. Thanks for the info.. I will have to talk to a mod about changing the Nick..
Posted by demostorm, 08-20-2005, 02:01 PM
rescenter, Before selling you had a very good reputation and I think normally I would gravitate toward your services. HOWEVER. I have to say with or without a noncompete clause it doesn't sit well with me that A) You choose a new name so similiar to the company you sold. B) You are posting your sig in a thread about the old company you just solds demise. Fact of the matter is directly or indirectly you are part of the reason these customers are having this problem. Please explain why a client should trust you and why even without a noncompete you find nothing wrong with posting your sig in this thread when it can take customers that you basically sold to them right back. Vito had a post in another thread about something Similiar. It doesn't seem right to me but perhaps you have an explanation that makes sense.
Posted by jph-, 08-20-2005, 02:17 PM
demostorm, As they say, everything is a situation. I agree that rescenter is in a strange position, but I don't think he planned it this way, and now I think he has every right to make the best of a bad situation. He doesn't have to spend the rest of his life tiptoeing around things. If his agreements allow him to be back in business he shouldn't have to do it in hiding or anything. (although, I obviously agree that he should keep a clear separation, but more for his own sake. And I don't think there has been any confusion, even within this thread, about the two companies being separate.)
Posted by demostorm, 08-20-2005, 03:47 PM
I'd rather hear it from them why they are posting. I don't deny the possibility of a special circumstance. That is always possible but comeon you don't think using the name rescenter won't be confusing? Its not a matter of tip toeing its a matter of actively engaging in taking something back you sold. IF I bought a batch of rental properties I paid for the income and good will of the properties. I don't expect the former owner to actively engage in soliciting the very renters I bought from him no matter what problem I am having. If I go out of business more power to him. If they go to him more power to him but unless there is a special circumstance he should stay out of actively engaging my renters.
Posted by MstrHost, 08-22-2005, 08:05 AM
Just to be accurate about DIY support, the TT wasn't responded to for 6 days and only after posting to this forum was a justification for the IP requested. Not to get too far off-topic, but DIY as an alternate provider was specifically being discussed by two users that were very active in RC forums (jph & dlrmartin). I felt they have contributed enough to users there that I should provide what little information I had for them now.
Posted by igotdreams, 08-22-2005, 12:00 PM
anyone else have a few websites down this morning?
Posted by dhaberer, 08-22-2005, 12:03 PM
with rc? not me. as of yesterday everything is moved away now (except my old service domain).
Posted by The Gunner, 08-22-2005, 12:30 PM
Everything seems to be working ok for me.
Posted by skypanther, 08-22-2005, 12:34 PM
Yes, I have sites down. There's a message on their excuse of a status page that says: "We are experiencing some issues with one of our three bandwidth providers. The routes have switched over to one of our other bandwidth providers but it could take a couple of hours for this change to be seen across the net. Because of this you may see intermittent outages overt the next couple of hours." Anyone have a clue as to what time today that message might have been posted? Tim
Posted by The Gunner, 08-22-2005, 12:42 PM
Where is the status page? All I've been able to find is a server status page but there is never a message.
Posted by skypanther, 08-22-2005, 02:25 PM
Gunner, here's where I was checking: http://www.reseller-center.com/news.php It's linked to off of the home page. Tim
Posted by jph-, 08-22-2005, 03:13 PM
Anyone notice a problem with dwmail? When I send an HTLM email from Outlook, and I access it through dwmail, it does not show the email, but two "attachments" which are realy the mime parts (one text and the other HTML). This is the way that outlook has always sent html email as far as I know, I certainly didn't change anything on that end. This is goofy! I am pretty sure that before the crash, dwmail showed and dealt with html and text mail just fine. I have checked all the settings that are available to the user, and I can't find anything that is causing this. Also, HORDE is now defaulting to show the "text" portion, but shows the "html" portion as a second alternative that you need to click on and view in a different screen. I don't remember that being that way before either. any thoughts out there?
Posted by Obry, 08-22-2005, 04:55 PM
Yeah, my poor customers that I haven't been able to moved yet are complaining about this same problem. Most of the cases, DWMail says it found a virus in the e-mail when it's an HTML message and I think that might be why it's not showing HTML messages (and I know there ain't no damn virus since I send a simple test HTML mail from my Hotmail account and it still said it found a virus)... I think their issues will never end - by the time they fix one thing, 5 others break and in between they have network outages and all kinds of other crap happening... reseller center-> <- reseller center's carma
Posted by billyxt4, 08-23-2005, 09:44 AM
Rescenter, You are pathetic, how low is it to sell your company than start up another one with a similar name. Then start trying to take the customers back by posting with your old name. I would never do business with you or your company. Even if the contract you have with the new owners doesn't specifically state no compete, what you are doing is in bad faith of the contract. I honestly hope you get sued and shut down for good.
Posted by Vortech, 08-23-2005, 09:52 AM
billyxt4, Well this is not his first time doing something like this. We had a no compete when he worked for us and started Reseller-Center he was sued by us. Maybe customers will listen next when I tell them he is down right dirty scum of the earth. I tried to tell everyone not do business with them before and will say it again. I also was the first to let customers know they were selling out. Mostly because they have no idea what they are doing or how to do it. The 3 stooges will be out of business or sold off again before you know it. It's just a fact.
Posted by demostorm, 08-23-2005, 11:00 AM
Well, The non compete might not even matter. I'd love to see that contract because I have never heard of selling a company and still being able to use an abbreviation of the company name for your own business (and no judge in his right mind wouldn't see rescenter by the former owner as an abbreviation). By posting their sig in more than one reseller-center thread thats exactly what is being done.
Posted by jimsauerii, 08-23-2005, 11:34 AM
Well this is where Yash will say a few choice words when seeing my post but here it goes. I am currently at this nightmare of a host known as reseller Center. I came to it from another nightmare of a host known as Jodohost. I never thought anything could be worse than Jodo but sometimes we are proven wrong. I see many of you are heading to Jodo, I hope they are a thousand times better than when I left. I was having tons of problems with their servers and their support. Everything was the customers fault and if you posted problems in the forums they were deleted from the forums. When I left most of my sites were hijacked and the databases corrupted in what was my opinion retaliation. Me and Yash locked horns in many forums (this one included) for some time. Back then Jodohost was a word banned from this forum as was Yash with another name. I heard it was spam related but that was only from reading other forum posts. Yash would better be able to explain it. I was recently locked out of my domain name for my reseller site which was under Jodohost through DirectI. My password was altered and when I used the live chat they said my account was deleted. It wasnt however and I was able to get it back and out from under Jodo directly through DirectI. My sites were down because RC changed everything and I couldnt alter my info with my registrar. Now I dont know if this was an intentional act by Yash and company or something somewhere else but it was highly suspicious. Now all this said I can say that at least Yash only deleted posts that were negative and not the whole forum.... Reseller Center has taken first place on the worst host ever since the takeover. Jodo even tried to help with problems more than the current RC owners. There was a good group of people in their forums as well, just like there was in RC's forums. I hope those who have headed to Jodo do allright. They have had near a year now to get it together. It can't possibly be worse than RC is now. Also for RC info. All my mails are gone. Nothing was recovered. I am looking for a new host as well.
Posted by demostorm, 08-23-2005, 11:43 AM
Jodohost has a decent reputation here but then theres Site5, Hostgator, resellerzoom. I'd still say Bluewho , Fluidhosting, Rshosting and many more Lots of good ones. Thing is though you never know who might be the next host with a great reputation to develop a bad reputation.
Posted by jimsauerii, 08-23-2005, 11:49 AM
That is for sure. I will probably not even do the reseller thing again. I may just grab a package that allows multiple domains and the same type of resources.
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-23-2005, 11:56 AM
Jimsau, It's been a long time since I've seen you (apart from the various reviews you have been leaving all around the new under anonymous names - even though u left us 1.5 years ago) 1) We never deleted posts from our forum without merit. Your posts used to be deleted because you use to post the same thing several times, or hijack other threads with your issues. 2) Some of your issues were purely related to your own ISP or propogation. One thread I clearly remember was when u complained your site was going up, down, up, down. Other customers looked at your site and found no such issue. You flatly blamed us and what apparently was the cause of the issue was thta your domain wasn't fully propogated yet! So yes at times it was the customer's fault. 3) One of your site used to cause high load and application issues on Win6. We had to disable it at times and we did inform you about the very same. But you decided to simply blame us for anything and everything 4) Are you saying we hijacked your sites or corrupted your databases? That is a VERY VERY serious accusation you are making against our company. Let me state that we keep no personal grudges against our customers and we would never go to the extent of harming your business, whatever you may say about us. Infact we openly help unsatisfied customers moving to other hosts if the need arises. 5) Some years ago, I had misinterpreted the rules and it resulted in my account being disabled at WHT. This was an issue that was resolved a long time ago 6) We never changed your passwords. You can easily retrieve your password by using the password recovery forum. You can even email our billing department and upon proper verification they'll send you a new password 7) As I said, I never deleted your posts unless there was a specific rule violation 8) You spammed our forum saying that we were still sending you invoices. You didn't fill out the cancellation forum and told me it was obvious you had left and we should stop sending you invoices. If there is anything I can do for you or anything else you want to discuss, you could send me a PM. I'd love to see you as a JodoHost customer again. I am sure you'll find us a better host than you did last time.
Posted by buckROGERSfn, 08-23-2005, 06:10 PM
I too am an RC refugee. I bailed a while ago, but not before they had thoroughly pissed me off. For all those looking for new hosts, here's what I did. I went to ServerMatrix and got a dedicated machine for $109 per month. Yes, its a bit more $ -- but I'm the king of my castle. I'm in control of the entire machine. I'll never do anything with a shared server again. Best of luck to all in their escape from RC.
Posted by sruli, 08-24-2005, 02:34 AM
I have several dedicated servers (at EV1) upon which I host many Linux sites (on Ensim) and a few dedicated server customers. I began reselling through RC simply because I didn't have enough Windows customers to justify purchase of a server plus SQL Server licensing. This experience has caused me to reconsider my position. At this point many of my sites are still at RC, but some of the most important have moved to Jodo. I am not really all that interested in paying for two reseller accounts (actually three, but that's another story) so at some point I'm going to consolidate somewhere. Now that I have eight servers I'm considering colocation and my own HSphere cluster. I had hoped not to deal with the hassle of this kind of migration and the burden it'll put on my customers, but I am somewhat jumpy at this point of not being in control of my destiny. This will open up a new market for me; some of my bigger customers who are web designers have expressed an interest in reselling web hosting through me. Also, the initial cost will be high, but I'll save money in monthly expenses. On the other hand, colo also means putting all my eggs in a single basket. I have a lot to think about. Last edited by sruli; 08-24-2005 at 02:42 AM.
Posted by jimsauerii, 08-24-2005, 01:36 PM
Actually Yash, that is a lie. I have never posted about you or Jodo outside my Jsauerii name or this One! It was probably some of your other unhappy customers from back then. Other than the recent comments about the latest fiasco with my domain names in RC forums which they deleted because speaking ill of you there constituted advertising your services in their minds... the last I spoke of you or jodo was at soop forums probably a year ago where we were both slapped on the hand by the mods there as were a few others speaking ill of you for using their forums to fight... Thats not true. If I posted the same thing it was because of repeated issues. You deleted other posts just as fast as mine if they were showing you in a negative light. It came to pass that access db's themselves were the main issues with the site locking up. It happened at RC too with the new 2003. They blamed me too but I finally found the issue in many various tech forums. Ends up it wasnt me or you on that... It was M$ See #2 It happened after our issues. It may have simply been a coincidence but it was highly suspicious Ok Your own live support said the account was deleted and there was nothing that could be done.... Thats sure a problem there in my opinion... I disagree but.... Water under the bridge. Hopefully it doesnt happen now like before... Yes, I spammed the heck out of your forum to get you to stop spamming me after I did indeed fill out the form and write jodo a few times to stop me being spammed. It did have the effect desired as I stopped getting the bills finally. Anyway. Seriously. This was my first post outside RC in about a year about you. I heard you were so pissed at me for a while you were even posting on the Hsphere forums about me..... LOL. Apparently it was related to the other me that isnt me... Good day Yash!
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-24-2005, 01:59 PM
No I don't lie without knowing my facts. You left us 1.5 years ago and you did post bad reviews about us at WHT and also at other public mediums. You are most welcome to post bad things about us as long as they are truthful. But you have consistently blamed us for issues that had nothing to do with us. I know for sure because you pasted the exact same text here at WHT a while ago like you did on the other sites, accusing us of various malpractises and what not. Absolute slander as you misrepresnted several facts. Anyway, I do not want to go into that since it has already been taken care of. If I am confusing you with another customer, my appologies. But I do remember this clearly. Every host has bad reviews/comments and digruntled customers. No company can achieve a 100% satisfaction rate. I have no issues with bad reviews as long as they accurate with what they say. If I remember correctly, RC (Mike or Alan) had posted an issue on Windows related to your website/account. I had stated you had similar issues on our servers. This was such a long time ago that I hardly remember the details. I was never pissed with you, nor have I been pissed with any customer for that matter. If I have ever vented steam against anything at HSphere's forum, it has been about hsphere bugs and poor policies. I work 18 hours a day keep customers happy and ensuring everything is running smoothly, along with our dedicated team. The last thing that I have time for is enganging in these sort of games.
Posted by Yash-JH, 08-24-2005, 02:15 PM
That is ridiculous. Only the threads that were repetitive or where you hijacked a thread discussing another issue were deleted. Even after all your outbursts on the forum, many in which you accused us and me of what not, we persisted with you and tried to be as professional and has helpful as we could. You want to see some of your old posts? http://support.jodohost.com/showthre...3&page=1&pp=10
Posted by jimsauerii, 08-24-2005, 07:20 PM
Yash, How about drop it? Sure you can dig up a few old posts from your site, many are far gone though. I could still probably dig up plenty of old posts in other forums that were very negative in which you fought with those people posting there as well for many the same reasons but whats the point? People say you are doing better now and thats all that really counts. Also when you post to a thread with a related or identical problem it is not hijacking..... I tried to add some positive above as well with the fact that the access db problem was M$ related and not my nor your fault as it was one of the big problems back then. I think it started when you upgraded to 2003 on the server I was on or it seems I was switched to a newer server after joining as well that was 2003. Look back to my first post above as well Yash "Jodo even tried to help with problems more than the current RC owners. ", Maybe a bunch of things went wrong at jodo because of growing pains and I showed up at the wrong time...... Read the positive as well as the negative in a post.....
Posted by jimsauerii, 08-24-2005, 07:39 PM
And Thanks, you reminded me of some of the good people in your forums I was speaking of.
Posted by anon-e-mouse, 08-25-2005, 03:35 AM
Closed for review.