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Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 06:48 PM
I am very disappointed with my choice to use this company to host a re-seller account. They received double payment for this months invoice and did not return the money when I submitted a ticket to them and then they gave this response when I disputed one of the payments through paypal. "GreenValueHost is a company that provides intangible web hosting services.This dispute is over an intangible service which is not covered by PayPal and cannot be disputed as per your legal agreements.More information regarding this case is available upon request." Judging from their above response I can say that they are not the type of people I like to do business with. I just THOUGHT I was irritated earlier .... this was their strike 3 for me... and in less than 8 weeks. I know how hard it is for someone new to choose a provider because it was for me, and that is why I am sharing this information. Luckily I had decided to do a 'trial period' to learn the different programs and to get a little more familiar with the ins and outs of hosting before offering services to anyone -- so I don't have the hassle of moving accounts etc... I used Zomex.com for regular hosting for several years and now they offer reseller accounts too so I will be moving over to them asap. Dana
Posted by WillyZ, 01-22-2013, 07:09 PM
You are now in good hands working with Jack at Zomex.
Posted by GetInclined, 01-22-2013, 07:16 PM
Sorry to hear about your bad experience, but I've read great things about Zomex, so I hope they'll treat you right.
Posted by ~Lee~, 01-22-2013, 07:17 PM
I notice Jon from GVH is currently online, perhaps he will respond shortly.
Posted by Microlinux, 01-22-2013, 07:28 PM
That's not GVH's response, it's PayPal's response. Intangible services are not eligible for disputes. What was GVH's response on the ticket you submitted through their support system?
Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 07:34 PM
Well it should make for good drama for some I suppose, I'd be SHOCKED if they said anything nice or helpful. They did, however, just send me an email... "As for the PayPal issue, again, please provide us with more information. As you've now opened a PayPal dispute, we are going to fight against it and win the dispute because PayPal does not side with buyers for intangible services. What is our solution? Your account will be terminated with no backups provided, your information will be submitted to a fraud database and we will contact PayPal to get this issue resolve."
Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 07:36 PM
no, this GHV's response. see attached. Attached Thumbnails
Posted by GetInclined, 01-22-2013, 07:38 PM
Did you ask GVH for a refund for the extra payment before you submitted the PayPal dispute? While I don't agree with the un-professionalism about the fraud database, if you didn't ask for a refund before you filed a dispute without asking for a refund first I can understand while they're upset because that can put their PayPal account in danger of being suspended.
Posted by ~Lee~, 01-22-2013, 07:40 PM
Well it will be interesting to see their side of the story. Not quite sure why they would be asking you for more information if you have paid twice, it's kind of obvious what needs to be done without knowing anything else but who the customer is.
Posted by Microlinux, 01-22-2013, 07:44 PM
Gotcha. Either way, it is a non-tangible service and PayPal does not entertain those disputes. We still don't know much about how it got to this point though, how did the invoice get double-paid and what was GVH's initial response to that? The key things are the reasoning and time-line, since PayPal disputes should really be the absolute last resort.
Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 07:48 PM
Yes, Jack is totally awesome and actually helped me and taught me a lot when I hosted a regular account with him. I probably would not have gone with another provider had I known that he was offering reseller accounts and that it really didn't matter so much where the servers were located. Lesson learned :-)
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-22-2013, 08:00 PM
What you are referencing to is called a PayPal subscription that you've created during checkout. What more needs to be said? I looked through out PayPal transactions and only saw two payments from you. One initially, and the second one automated by PayPal. We have no control over whether or not you choose to create a subscription when you first pay. Instead of creating a ticket and calmly trying to resolve this issue with us and trying to understand the problem you instead submitted a rude ticket after creating a Paypal dispute: Once again I will tell you that it is a Paypal subscription and nothing else. We have no control over it. The SSL Certificate ticket that you have submitted, that you are attacking us for only says 1) How are we supposed to know which domain you would like the SSL certificate for? 2) How are we supposed to know where you would like it sent to? 3) How is it virtually possible to install an ssl certificate without a dedicated IP address, which you did not order? -- To finally close up this thread, you were a client for only one month. We received only TWO payments from you. One initial, and one automated because of the subscription you created. I could not find any other payment and I have double checked. Please refer to this Paypal document on what a PayPal subscription is: https://www.paypal.com/webapps/helpc...ID=94006&m=SRE You made NO attempt to contact us before opening a dispute. We would have been more than happy to assist you any way we can but instead you opened up a ticket in with an attitude that makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever. A screenshot is attached with my proof. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 01-22-2013 at 08:05 PM.
Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 08:18 PM
The original response was simply: "I am escalating this to our senior admin." ...and I was probably more irritated than I needed to be because the site timed-out 3 times while submitting the ticket (requiring me to start over each time). After an hour of no further responses (A solid reply would have helped. ie: We have escalated this ticket to XXXXXX, XXXXXXX will contact you within XXXXXX hours/days concerning this matter.) I logged into paypal and requested a refund for one of the payments. None the less, they have proven the type of people they are ... it now seems to be their mission to 'hurt me' and apparently they have no problem with theft either. Good Riddance.
Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 08:23 PM
No ... you have received 3. You probably need to go back and look again.
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-22-2013, 08:25 PM
If I may intervene with this, you created a ticket on 01/23/2013 01:11 A member of our support staff replied at 01/23/2013 01:24 which was the response "We are escalating this issue". I responded on 01/23/2013 02:16 which is 1 hour and 5 minutes after you created your ticket. You signed up knowing that our billing department is not open 24/7. The majority of web hosts do not have a 24/7 billing department. You received a response to a BILLING INQUIRY in satisfactory timing If you had an issue with our helpdesk you had more than one option - Call us on the phone - Email a member of our management team directly - Email billing@greenvaluehost.com which would have piped over to the helpdesk - PM me on WHT After looking through the payment history in more than just the subscription log, I do see that you have made a MANUAL payment with knowledge that you have created a Paypal subscription and therefore this is not only a case of you not understanding how Paypal works when you have created a Paypal account, but this is considered libel, slander and fraud. I would understand if you initially created a billing ticket to rectify the problem, but you didn't. You call it OUR mistake. This was a misunderstanding on YOUR behalf that you have decided to take too far by not only insulting our staff but committing fraud and intentionally blaming us for it. To sum it up 1) You signed up with us and made an initial payment 2) Invoice was generated 7 days before it was due 3) You manually paid it knowing you had a subscription 4) Paypal sent us a recurring payment 5) You made absolutely no effort to try to rectify the problem with us even though it was a MISUNDERSTANDING on your end 6) You insulted our staff via ticket and created this thread under libel, slander and fraud. Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 01-22-2013 at 08:29 PM.
Posted by Microlinux, 01-22-2013, 08:54 PM
After an hour you opened a PayPal dispute? A PayPal dispute is not a refund, I'm not sure you understand how PayPal works. GVH did not take your money, you gave it to them.
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-22-2013, 09:39 PM
I absolutely agree. Thank You. This thread is not done yet, I would like to make a few more statements and clear some more things up I don't understand how you call it theft when 1) You confirmed the PayPal billing agreement from the start 2) You entered in your Paypal password manually on the Paypal payment screen on two occasions (1. Subscription Creation 2. Manual payment) 3) You gave us the money I'm glad that you've migrated over to Zomex but I'm going to express my concern for them, you, and the nature of this issue to them by giving them a call sometime soon. I truly believe that here in WHT, the WHT community are the judge and jury in these kinds of cases. If anybody feels that we have done anything wrong in our part, please by all means speak up and let us know. I'm happy to take any suggestions, any comments or take care of any concerns.
Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 10:32 PM
Yes I did request the refund after one hour, and you may choose to judge me but I can promise you there were reasons for my actions. Regardless of how you or others choose to twist or judge my actions, I can assure you I had just cause. I will say that going through paypal did achieve one thing.... a real response. The issue would have been avoided if he would have simply followed through with his word as I did mine. This issue started because I had an emergency and was trying to make sure the payment would be made. I was TOLD to make that manual payment to be safe and that they would take care of the rest. They took care of it all right. The whole gist of the original post was not a complaint about them double dipping... it was more about their lack of professionalism. Also, (just for the record) I'm pretty sure I understand paypal.... my account was originally opened the first month they were online (they gave me $10 free to open my account) and I upgraded to a business account 10 or more years ago. With a transaction total of over 6 figures, I'd say its a safe bet that I understand paypal just fine. I'm sure this post will probably go on and on and I'm sure GHV will be determined to have the last word. My goal was to share my experience and I have accomplished that. Dana
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-22-2013, 10:37 PM
All I have to say is if you would have opened a billing ticket without opening a paypal dispute and without an insulting manner you would have gotten a refund for that payment without any problems When you signed up with us you agreed to our terms of service and our policy against staff abuse and the terms of service you agreed to is legally binding as per this act passed by US Congress in 2000: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...l_Commerce_Act This was all caused by your misunderstanding of PayPal, ignorance, and you choosing to insult our staff. Twist it all you want in your favor, but this is what it all boils down to. We are proud to say that in all of the time that we've been open, all the valid reviews that we have received were positive. Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 01-22-2013 at 10:41 PM.
Posted by SPINIKR-RO, 01-22-2013, 10:57 PM
You know its best for customer retention if you just work it out instead of blabbing about this kind of ****. From what I can understand: 1) Customer Paid 2) PayPal auto drafted (subscription) This is a double payment and at the very least you should contact the customer and work something out, at the very least offer account credit. Just because something like this happened it does not mean you are entitled to profit off a mistake. Am I wrong in understanding that a double payment was made here? Did the last thread about you not change your mind in the way you deal with things? Bull ****. Get lost, this is exactly what you argued against when you made a public post regarding our company and not paying a invoice. What, you are using this terminology after you were called out on this very thing yesterday?.. or day before. ....... Last edited by SPINIKR-RO; 01-22-2013 at 11:03 PM.
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-22-2013, 11:03 PM
We will not stand for any type of slander, libel, or staff abuse against our company. We've tolerated by far too many of these issues and this is where we're going to draw the line Some quotes from our ToS: Backed by the e-sign act of 2000 passed by US Congress and our legally binding terms of service agreed to upon signup we reserve the right to put our foot down, and that's what we have done.
Posted by SPINIKR-RO, 01-22-2013, 11:04 PM
What staff? What a complete and total disrespect for your customer. fooey Last edited by SPINIKR-RO; 01-22-2013 at 11:07 PM.
Posted by ArtieT, 01-22-2013, 11:12 PM
Jon, just because it's in your Terms of Service, doesn't mean it will hold up in court.
Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 11:19 PM
he staff here at GreenValueHost work hard to provide kind and courteous services to its customers. Clients may not verbally abuse our staff in forms of harrassment, threats, blackmailing, or bribing by yelling, shouting, or swearing. Any abuse to our staff will result in your account being permanently terminated without refund. You will no longer be able to access GreenValueHost's website nor any of it's sub companies or subsidiaries." For the record, I have done none of these things. Carry on. Dana
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-22-2013, 11:22 PM
I can't handle 24/7 technical support with an average of under 10 mins response times all by myself you know. This issue is over $17 and the cost of going to court would be well over 50 times that amount. Whether or not you have is an opinion. I would like to get this issue resolved and get your refund to you without the intervention of PayPal. Could you please email me directly at jonathan@greenvaluehost.com ? Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 01-22-2013 at 11:25 PM.
Posted by SPINIKR-RO, 01-22-2013, 11:31 PM
At least stop lying you have a full staff dude, and stop dodging the issue at hand (weird saying) Your the "COO" and somehow you or your 'management staff' cant install a simple app? You have a issue with refunding people. Your GVH history here is in the gutter within the last few. You have a history of breaking in and doing the right thing after ridiculous posts here and people calling you out. How long is this nonsense going to continue? Nothing but trouble looking through your history here. Issue that person a refund and be done with it, stop chasing around the issue at hand (there that silly phrase is again!)
Posted by GetInclined, 01-22-2013, 11:38 PM
I'm not really understanding all of this, both parties should just comply and go their separate ways. It's this easy: Client - Cancel Dispute Provider - Refund the money
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-22-2013, 11:43 PM
The reason I could not install that app was because of an issue that was not listed in the WHMCS documentation that had to be addressed to me by Stardevelop. The integration and the whmcs live chat installation was done all in a matter of less than a busy, busy day and I'm the one responsible for those types of things. There's currently two GVH reviews on WHT and the first one has been resolved, so I don't know why you're calling it "in the gutter". To be honest I don't know why you continuously try to grab my throat on every single thread you can possible. I know you have a grudge on me because of the past but I thought we could just let that go. Maturity is something that needs to be improved upon here. Like I said - The WHT community is the judge and jury. I value their opinions, even if I may not be fond of them. I do the right thing based on comments, concerns, etc to satisfy the masses. I don't mind giving refunds. It's a matter of all of us hosts giving in to pressure and making our policies even more irrelevant. I'm going to resissue a refund to Dana soon and this will be my last post on this matter. Thank You and Regards,
Posted by ArtieT, 01-22-2013, 11:47 PM
He just speaks what other people (like me) think, but won't post due to the possibility of an infraction. Truth hurts doesn't it?
Posted by DDStanley, 01-22-2013, 11:53 PM
AWESOME! As per your tagline I would like a full refund of all 3 payments asap :-) Please and thank you, Dana ________________________________________ Jonathan N. - COO ▬ GreenValueHost - True Web Hosting at Great Value █ LiteSpeed Powered cPanel Shared & Reseller Hosting and Virtual Private Servers █ Live Chat Support 100% Uptime 45-Day Money Back Guarantee █ TRUE 24/7 Technical Support with an Average Ticket Response Time of under 10 Minutes! ____________________________________________
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-22-2013, 11:57 PM
Will do however minus $20 because of the WHMCS License fees of course. To be fair to both sides. We don't get refunds for our WHMCS Licenses and that's totally out of our control. I'd appreciate your understanding and cooperation in this matter. Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 01-23-2013 at 12:00 AM.
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-23-2013, 12:07 AM
All three refunds have now been processed (minus the WHMCS License fees that go to WHMCS that we have absolutely no control over) Thank you for your time as a client of GVH and have a nice night.
Posted by SPINIKR-RO, 01-23-2013, 12:08 AM
At the lowest plan, if $8.75/m you are offering WHMCS free then how does $20 factor in at 1 month of service.
Posted by ArtieT, 01-23-2013, 12:10 AM
How do you count up $20 dollars?
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-23-2013, 12:11 AM
He was a client for a little over 1 mo. and we purchased his license and renewed it and our TOS says WHMCS Licenses are worth $10.00/mo, = $20.00 deduction which again is out of our control If anything, take it up with WHMCS and ask them to lower their pricing The price that we get our WHMCS Licenses for are confidential and are none of your business
Posted by SPINIKR-RO, 01-23-2013, 12:14 AM
You cant charge a rate over your plan? If you offer a $8.75/m plan with free whmcs then if someone orders a 14$ plan you cant say that their licence is worth $10, its worth under $8.
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-23-2013, 12:17 AM
So I assume you have access to Dana's client area login now to be able to see which plan he ordered? How do you know that we aren't purposely spending money and not profiting for every one of those plans? Do you have our business plans in your hands? Are you reading my mind? Where are you getting all this information from? ... I'd like to know.
Posted by SPINIKR-RO, 01-23-2013, 12:18 AM
Not at all. I am looking at your sales thread. "Performing Remote Check: Array ( [licensekey] => Leased-4634004d14b2e9ce779a [domain] => secure.greenvaluehost.com [ip] => 198.23.150.206 [dir] => /home/securegr/public_html ) Raw Remote Response: Active Jonathan Nguyen 2 Monthly Lease 2013-01-08 0000-00-00 Free Account secure.greenvaluehost.com,www.secure.greenvaluehost.com 198.23.150.206 /home/securegr/public_html Reseller=LicensePal name=Live Chat Monthly Addon;nextduedate=2013-02-22;status=Active 7d17f5eec4e7efeabd02b17e6710719c 5.1.3 Remote Check Completed" If you are not paying under $8 for WHMCS how can you offer it under $8 ... let alone claim that customer owes you $10 for WHMCS
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-23-2013, 12:21 AM
We could be paying $10.00/month, or even the full price for each WHMCS License and we could just be advertising that plan to get our name out there. As I said, you do not have access to our business plans. This thread is resolved, please let it go.
Posted by SPINIKR-RO, 01-23-2013, 12:26 AM
Its not resolve you took that clients money. If I buy a car for 10,000 and sell it back to the dealer with a 5 day return policy. Do you expect the dealer to keep $5000 and say that the actual cost of the car was 15000?
Posted by NHRoel, 01-23-2013, 12:42 AM
Note to self: do not bother with reports submitted by green value host at fraud record.
Posted by NHRoel, 01-23-2013, 12:52 AM
Technically he can. Kinda similar to free domain offers.
Posted by SPINIKR-RO, 01-23-2013, 12:56 AM
If I offer a $10 account with a free domain and my cost for the domain is $8 then I can refund perhaps $2. but I cant say that the domain prices me $12. If you are marketing something as a loss then that is your decision not the customers.
Posted by NHRoel, 01-23-2013, 12:59 AM
Not exactly. If you are selling 2$/mo hosting with free domains (we call it buy 6 mo, get free domain), client wants refund after 7 days, you ate going to take out 10$ for the domain and only refund 2$. But you are charging him for 5 months of service because domain was free . Same logic applies here.
Posted by SarahA, 01-23-2013, 01:07 AM
There is no logic at all in selling hosting at a loss. He's got a plan for $8/month or whatnot with a free WHMCS License, which chances are he buy's from a reseller at $11-$12. That is a failed business plan. Paying to host client's lol!
Posted by DDStanley, 01-23-2013, 01:48 AM
It is what it is..... And what it is for me is a $50 lesson learned. But all in all, if I could go back and do it again I would still make the manual payment because that is the type of person I am. Why did a make that manual payment? Because that is what I was told to do to ensure that my account would not get suspended. I was very concerned that the auto payment would be declined and I was 200 miles from home without my computer. (If I would have known on December 22 that I would still be sitting/living in an ICU waiting room the second week of January it might have prompted me to remember to grab my laptop while I was running out the door -- hindsight). I have several automatic payments and I called all of them to discuss the issue. I am happy to say that this was the only company that took both the manual payment and the automated payment. (Two of them took my manual payment and declined the auto payment and the other simply told me that they were going to put a hold on my auto payment until I could make it back home and we would straighten it out at that time... which we did) .... being the optimistic person I am, I am thankful that 75% of them lived up to their word. Dana
Posted by WPCYCLE, 01-23-2013, 02:38 AM
..........
Posted by ReliableNode, 01-23-2013, 05:05 AM
You shouldn't open a PayPal dispute as that is not a refund. If you contacted them before, I'm sure they'll do something! I used GreenValueHost and they're the best.
Posted by ~Lee~, 01-23-2013, 06:19 AM
Slightly confused, in another thread you said you buy licences at $7.20 but you are saying they are worth $10.00 and you offer them Free. I can understand expecting the client to cover the licence prices if they cancel within 45 days providing you have it in your terms but why are you charging $10?
Posted by DarkRequiem, 01-23-2013, 06:40 AM
So from what I understand Dana (I have a friend named Dana from Canada btw!) is that: 1. You first contacted GreenHost and told them that there is a automatic payment which is scheduled to be made, and you asked them whether they would accept the automatic payment or not. 2. They replied saying that to be on the safer side, you do a manual payment? 3. They accepted both the manual payment and the automatic payment? If that is the case, then GreenHost is the one on the wrong side in my honest opinion.
Posted by KzN-Kane, 01-23-2013, 06:48 AM
Really ? How good any review since i saw 2 bad post and 1 resolve
Posted by KzN-Kane, 01-23-2013, 06:50 AM
But did you read there tos on refund ? Is this resolve im lost on this treat im intrigidbby this post
Posted by DarkRequiem, 01-23-2013, 06:52 AM
I remember reading on another thread Jon, Also I read your TOS - http://www.greenvaluehost.com/tos.html The only part about WHMCS license price states that I'm not taking anyone's side but I in my honest opinion the client is the one being wronged here. Last edited by DarkRequiem; 01-23-2013 at 07:04 AM.
Posted by KzN-Kane, 01-23-2013, 07:06 AM
Yea remember that but i think it got resolve by john i assuming is done
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-23-2013, 07:21 AM
Thank You for the kind words. I'm glad you're happy If you need anything please let me know When he signed up it said $10.00/year and the Terms were modified after that. Therefore, WHMCS Licenses are valued at $10.00/year for him however I'm going to let that slide and give him a further refund (WHMCS Licenses now valued @ $7.20/year which is the lowest possible publicly available cost) Also, if you are going to read a thread please read the whole thread. I stated that we have taken the steps to set up email piping. $10 - $7.20 = $2.80 $2.80 x 2 = $5.60 Client has been sent an additional refund of $5.60 To be honest with you all, if Dana submitted a respectful ticket to us in the beginning without the paypal dispute, none of this would have happened. We would have been more than happy to process her refunds. Kind of weird how both of the complaints that we've had boils down to the client not submitting a ticket to rectify the issue but rather posting a WHT thread and/or initiating a chargeback in which most of you guys here claim as fraud. That works too I guess.. Anyways. thread resolved. Last edited by GreenValueHostGM; 01-23-2013 at 07:25 AM.
Posted by KzN-Kane, 01-23-2013, 07:29 AM
Question 8.95 whmcs for ayear right ? But he only 1month old divide 8.95 by 12 ? If a reseller get freebie !! Like free whmcs they are not available for refunds ? Hard tos!
Posted by GreenValueHostGM, 01-23-2013, 07:40 AM
Thanks for bringing that to my attention. That was a typo, not a hard tos. It is now changed to $7.20/month
Posted by KzN-Kane, 01-23-2013, 07:42 AM
It look more better to me like u lose a less