AngelNetworkz Downtime [merged]

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Posted by 3en, 08-30-2004, 05:34 PM
Is there downtime @ Managed.com. I'm with them via ANz. I'll just pop a quick ticket.
Posted by sirius, 08-30-2004, 05:35 PM
This isn't there support forum, so probably best to contact your host directly and report it, if you are having problems with your server. Also, there is a forum specifically for this. Here is the link: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/forumd...php?forumid=59 Sirius
Posted by Scotty_B, 08-30-2004, 05:36 PM
More likely Managed have turned the angel networkz servers off. Oh dear.
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 05:37 PM
Yep, mine is off and so is my friends (with AngelNetworkz)
Posted by RyanD, 08-30-2004, 05:43 PM
If you read the AN forums they are claiming an outage at managed.com a network outage, they say servers are not pulled http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index...45&#entry12393
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 05:43 PM
My server at managed.com, through AN is down also. Here we go again folks. Jim
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 05:44 PM
Ah, mine is down.........
Posted by RyanD, 08-30-2004, 05:45 PM
Tons of users are reporting their servers down at managed.com, AngelNetworkz is saying it is a manged network outage http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index...45&#entry12393
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 05:45 PM
And looks like they are correct, as the managed site is down. Jim
Posted by girl.conf, 08-30-2004, 05:46 PM
The managed site isn't down. My server with ANz is also down.
Posted by Scotty_B, 08-30-2004, 05:46 PM
Managed site is up for me here, but different route so could be network, not too confident though. Tracing route to redandwhitekop.com [205.209.145.40] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1 2 29 ms 29 ms 27 ms lo1-bba1.th.eclipse.net.uk [212.104.130.141] 3 25 ms 29 ms 27 ms ge1-2-core3.th.eclipse.net.uk [81.5.191.37] 4 23 ms 28 ms 24 ms ge-5-1-620.metro1-londencyh00.London1.Level3.net [212.113.11.49] 5 24 ms 28 ms 29 ms so-1-3-0.gar2.London1.Level3.net [212.113.3.29] 6 27 ms 29 ms 26 ms ge-0-3-0-0.bbr2.London1.Level3.net [4.68.128.125 ] 7 90 ms 85 ms 84 ms as-0-0.bbr1.NewYork1.Level3.net [4.68.128.106] 8 95 ms 84 ms 87 ms ge-6-0-0.gar4.NewYork1.Level3.net [64.159.4.146] 9 116 ms 113 ms 113 ms xo-level3-oc12.NewYork1.Level3.net [209.244.160. 178] 10 111 ms 114 ms 113 ms p5-0-0.RAR2.NYC-NY.us.xo.net [65.106.3.41] 11 139 ms 105 ms 144 ms p6-0-0.RAR1.Washington-DC.us.xo.net [65.106.0.2] 12 183 ms 184 ms 185 ms p1-0-0.RAR1.SanJose-CA.us.xo.net [65.106.0.38] 13 183 ms 185 ms 184 ms 65.106.5.158.ptr.us.xo.net [65.106.5.158] 14 182 ms 184 ms 185 ms p0-0.CHR1.Fremont-CA.us.xo.net [207.88.80.178] 15 * * ^C E:\Documents and Settings\Ben Scott>tracert www.managed.com Tracing route to managed.com [66.79.160.10] over a maximum of 30 hops: 1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.0.1 2 27 ms 28 ms 28 ms lo1-bba1.th.eclipse.net.uk [212.104.130.141] 3 26 ms 29 ms 26 ms ge5-1-core4.th.eclipse.net.uk [81.5.191.41] 4 24 ms 26 ms 29 ms 251.ge6-0.mpr1.lhr1.uk.above.net [213.161.78.85] 5 29 ms 29 ms 27 ms so-4-1-0.cr1.lhr3.uk.above.net [208.184.231.174] 6 99 ms 98 ms 108 ms so-7-0-0.cr1.dca2.us.above.net [64.125.31.186] 7 95 ms 99 ms 100 ms so-0-0-0.cr2.dca2.us.above.net [64.125.29.122] 8 130 ms 127 ms 127 ms so-3-2-0.cr2.dfw2.us.above.net [64.125.28.205] 9 128 ms 127 ms 128 ms so-0-0-0.cr1.dfw2.us.above.net [64.125.28.209] 10 189 ms 184 ms 185 ms so-4-1-0.mpr4.sjc2.us.above.net [64.125.29.57] 11 186 ms 186 ms 185 ms so-0-0-0.er10a.sjc2.us.above.net [64.125.30.94] 12 186 ms 185 ms 184 ms reserved.above.net [209.133.64.124] 13 186 ms 184 ms 185 ms assertive.managed.com [66.154.102.5] 14 185 ms 186 ms 185 ms 66.79.175.2 15 189 ms 185 ms 185 ms www.managed.com [66.79.160.10] Trace complete.
Posted by edwardw, 08-30-2004, 05:46 PM
Ok, nevermind, been merged. Crap managed! Get back up soon Last edited by edwardw; 08-30-2004 at 05:50 PM.
Posted by Homer-HB, 08-30-2004, 05:50 PM
Managed is Up for me, along with one of my other friends server. It appears so far, that only AN resold servers are down. Managed got pissy?
Posted by 3en, 08-30-2004, 05:51 PM
It's been merged. So is it Managed.com or AngelNetworkz. The big plug or networkz issues.
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 05:52 PM
XO line seems to be down.............
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 05:52 PM
My server, also an AN server, is unreachable.
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 05:56 PM
Well I can get to managed now, but not my server through AN 205.209.140.xxx does anyone have a managed box not through AN on this IP block, that they can reach. Jim
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 05:57 PM
It is looking like AngelNetworkz servers are pulled, at least from my perspective. Are there any near-instant setup cpanel server providers out there? Where can I go to get a quick server? Unfortunately I only have a backup from a week or two ago.
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 05:57 PM
205.209.143.zz Unreachable
Posted by Homer-HB, 08-30-2004, 05:58 PM
My friend (the thread starter) is in that subnet, both servers actually. My other friend is on the 65.75.*.* subnet and he's up. It's either managed pulling the plug, or AN telling the truth.
Posted by edwardw, 08-30-2004, 05:58 PM
Oh god, please do not tell me this is it
Posted by Sasuke, 08-30-2004, 05:58 PM
Just called Managed tech support, they HAVE stated that this is NOT a network issue. It is to do with payments folks, looks like alot of angry people are going to end up pressing legal action against AN.
Posted by girl.conf, 08-30-2004, 05:59 PM
Liquidweb had us set up in 1.5 hours on Saturday night.
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 05:59 PM
NAC 15Minutes Server crappy cP though
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 05:59 PM
http://www.15minuteservers.com/Welcome.asp Jim
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:02 PM
Nothing wrong with NAC nor anything wrong with DA. Only problem is they don't offer cPanel
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 06:03 PM
Right about the cp, but you could always go through softwareworks for your cpanel license, I have never used them, but I think if you pay your bills to them they may be ok. Jim
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 06:03 PM
that's the point of the last part...
Posted by timdorr, 08-30-2004, 06:05 PM
Unfortunately, they did this right before closing. Should have done it earlier in the day when we could have gotten billing stuff worked out by the evening. I'm going to try paying directly to ANZ to get this sorted... wish me luck
Posted by 3en, 08-30-2004, 06:05 PM
Can we pay managed.com and then get our servers back online?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 06:05 PM
Which operating system would you recommend? I was running RH9. Fedora 1 or 2? If there are no answers from AN tonight I will buy a 15 minute server. I don't host others so I'll do what I can with a new control panel if I have to, just to get sites up.
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:06 PM
SoftWareWorks is only for managed.com (it's internal licenses for managed.com DC) As far as I've been told.
Posted by geeks4help, 08-30-2004, 06:06 PM
I just called Managed.com and it goes to the voicemail.
Posted by timdorr, 08-30-2004, 06:07 PM
Yeah, they close at 6, supposedly.
Posted by edwardw, 08-30-2004, 06:09 PM
GRRR Im so annoyed at this.
Posted by jacknoc, 08-30-2004, 06:09 PM
Mine are down too
Posted by DeltaAnime, 08-30-2004, 06:09 PM
It's only 3:00 PM their time. I just called htem a little bit ago, around 5 minutes ago. The tech confirmed that it IS a payment problem ~Francisco
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 06:12 PM
We are all screwed.
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:13 PM
I love your words Francisco
Posted by edwardw, 08-30-2004, 06:13 PM
Very much so. :@
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 06:16 PM
I just took a look at the site, and it does not say anything about managed.com, so it looks like any one can purchase a license for any server. Jim
Posted by DeltaAnime, 08-30-2004, 06:16 PM
Which Francisco? ~Francisco
Posted by MSG Inc., 08-30-2004, 06:19 PM
Greetings, There's nothing wrong with our network. All servers belonging to AN have been unplugged due to non-payment. There's a significant unpaid balance due since mid-June and the folks at AN have not returned our email or phone call requesting full payment Our apology to the people affected but we cannot provide service to companies that don't pay their bill -- especially when it's approaching $70,000 USD. Therefore, these servers will not be reactivated until the amount due is paid in full.
Posted by Knuttz, 08-30-2004, 06:21 PM
How is it possible for me to get the data I have on the server I do have with you through AN? How can I proceed to pay you directly for my server and get it back online?? Regards Gilberto
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 06:22 PM
Well folks, that is the final word, and I would say the last breath of AN, if they had a hard time coming up with $5000.00 to pay TMS, I find hard to believe that they will be able to pay this. Jim
Posted by edwardw, 08-30-2004, 06:22 PM
Can we pay managed.com and get our servers back up?
Posted by 3en, 08-30-2004, 06:22 PM
Can we have our servers relocated in your hands.. Please.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 06:23 PM
Would Managed.com consider making a buyout offer to gain some AN clients? If we can show login/pass (root) for servers to prove ownership.. or something? I've prepaid AN 4 months in advance and was assured just a week ago by Donna that they were financially stable and I should not worry about my server disappearing (I saw this coming, but still only backed up ~weekly because I was having trouble with the cpanel backups not working right). I will lose records of about 400 customers obtained in the past 1-2 weeks, plus I'm out of contact as is.
Posted by Homer-HB, 08-30-2004, 06:26 PM
Angel Networkz, calling at bottom floor.
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 06:26 PM
I do not think they can legaly do anything, the only way would be if Donna just turned it all over to them, and to be honest it looks like Donna has flown the coop, as she has not been heard from in days that I know of. Jim
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 06:26 PM
You know I'm the one baby
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:27 PM
Can you help us out if we provide that it is our server?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 06:29 PM
AN hasn't paid for the servers, they are owned by Managed now. Just "forget" to reformat before handing it over to the owner. I doubt there's a clause in the contract saying they have to clear off the data anyway.
Posted by Knuttz, 08-30-2004, 06:31 PM
And it is OUR data not AN's... Last edited by Knuttz; 08-30-2004 at 06:34 PM.
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:33 PM
I pray to god that they can. I do have backups but no server to put them on. (it's turned into a big mess)
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 06:37 PM
The "next time" came rather fast, didn't it? That didn't take long, but as soon as Donna said anything about turning off servers at managed, people should have been bolting for the doors. All that was just her trying to cover AN's butt for this eventuality.
Posted by edwardw, 08-30-2004, 06:38 PM
Please give me some information.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 06:38 PM
I never knew anything was said about turning off servers at managed. AN has never been good at communicating though, like posting **IMPORTANT NOTICES** at a forum that none of their customers were registered at.
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 06:40 PM
I think it may be a little more complicated than that , I was under the impression that maybe some of the boxes were colo, and that there is other hardware involved that does belong to AN, however, at this point who knows what the true story is, as AN has been feeding us all a line of BS. Jim
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 06:42 PM
Rachel posted that info on the AN website a few days ago, said that 200 managed boxes would be unplugged. Jim
Posted by Ww333, 08-30-2004, 06:43 PM
I thought those 200 were being turned off for non-payment?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 06:44 PM
Again, using a forum instead of just e-mailing the damn customers. If I had known about the post I would've moved. I've just paid for my '15 minute server' at NAC -- hope DA setup doesn't take long and hope I can just paste in my mysql folder from two weeks ago and get the databases back up.
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 06:46 PM
Correct non payment by AN, they made it sound like it was non paying customers, but it was pretty clear to me, that managed was going down, and as someone else said they were suttly trying to let you know. Jim
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:47 PM
Well they say hardware is from Racklogic. www.racklogic.com I don't know what to think of it
Posted by isalex, 08-30-2004, 06:48 PM
I just would like to know when the TP servers are going to go? All be it I have backups done daily.....
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:50 PM
Took my DA server 31 minutes
Posted by edwardw, 08-30-2004, 06:51 PM
I would like to know if our servers could be switched on for 2-3 hours for backup?
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:54 PM
I hope so, but I don't think so
Posted by isalex, 08-30-2004, 06:55 PM
legally Donna owns the server and the IP's so I think it will be up to her to turn them on for you guys.....
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-30-2004, 06:57 PM
That could happen, but do not hold your breath. If managed did decide to do that, I would suspect the earliest that it would be done is tommorrow. Jim
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 06:57 PM
But how can she turn them on when she never paid the bills? managed.com pulled the plug due to none payment of $70k.. Explain that EH.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 06:59 PM
Yes, screwed by the deception. I did find the post mentioned before about servers being turned off, it was entirely about non-paying customers not AN not paying, whether it was supposed to be a warning or not isn't important, a random post in a rarely visited forum is not even a warning. NAC Customer Care -- Stage: Manual Post Install Software AdWords: Paused Searchfeed: Paused 7Search: Paused Bidclix: Paused Overture: Pausing... Next up, void out today's credit card transactions since I don't have orders to go with them.
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 07:01 PM
Screwed indeed. Keep me updated on your new server
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 07:01 PM
Doubt it. They're under no obligation to continue to provide services without being paid by their client, which is AN. I wouldn't get any more involved in it, either, if I were them. Hope you have some backups.
Posted by Mark_YH, 08-30-2004, 07:14 PM
Do you make it a habit of disclosing the financial history of your clients to the general public? Or do you just pick and choose which portions of your Privacy Policy you violate? What a new low...
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 07:18 PM
What's the difference. We all knew it would be for nonpayment, well, at least those of us not deluding ourselves into thinking AN would pull through again. We just didn't know the amount. Doesn't surprise me.
Posted by nybble, 08-30-2004, 07:19 PM
Ok, so angelnetworks is gone and they stole all my data, and money. Took my clients files and wont talk. What the ****ing hell is going on!
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 07:20 PM
Go to the outages forum down at the bottom here. You'll see a thread about managed.com, which is really about AN.
Posted by akatay, 08-30-2004, 07:21 PM
Ok.....moving on. Is Managed.com going down the drain? Who do you recommend as I need a new dedicated server asap and I don't know where to go nor do I have much time to look. I'm looking at losing 3 clients. Please help me out, thanks.
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 07:23 PM
is you are shooting at managed prices go for Nocster.
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 07:24 PM
NOTE TO MODS Can you change the title of this thread? It's obviously not about managed.com, and the AN people getting screwed probably won't check in here without a title change.
Posted by jheslop1, 08-30-2004, 07:25 PM
read in the outage forums , where all in the same boat nybble and it's already sunk.
Posted by Mark_YH, 08-30-2004, 07:26 PM
That's not the point twidnet, I really can sympathize with all of the people being damaged by all this. What is inexcusable is a company disclosing confidential financial information about a client to the general public. That's as sleazy as it gets not to mention the potential legal exposure. If I were Donna I'd have this statement which was made by managed.com sitting on my lawyer's desk first thing in the morning. Check out 15minuteservers or DedicatedNow for some budget servers. I've used DedicatedNow before and they are ok. If you are looking for great servers, then ServInt is the place you want to go...
Posted by timdorr, 08-30-2004, 07:26 PM
I just don't get why managed.com won't let us pay for the servers directly. They get the money and less phone calls, so I don't see where the problem is...
Posted by 3en, 08-30-2004, 07:27 PM
AngelNetworkz must be exoised for once.
Posted by Marty, 08-30-2004, 07:27 PM
If the servers are turned back on Managed.com has no leverage to collect past due payments.
Posted by timdorr, 08-30-2004, 07:32 PM
Even if I paid for those?
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 07:35 PM
Sorry, Mark, I see your point about the disclosure. Not sure what case you think Donna would have. Since AN has obviously violated their contract by failing to pay, managed could consider that they are no longer bound by any obligations to AN. Your recommendation of dedicatednow is one I would disagree with, for the record, to anyone considering them. Stay away from dedicatednow.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 07:35 PM
It's not Managed's hardware, they can't sell it to you.
Posted by RossH, 08-30-2004, 07:36 PM
Wrong...if AN blamed their customers downtime on Managed they were comitting libel and Managed is allowed to set the story straight to protect its reputation. You lie and it's always fair game.
Posted by Knuttz, 08-30-2004, 07:38 PM
So says Donna...
Posted by 3en, 08-30-2004, 07:38 PM
Managed.com owns the HARDWARE. THEY OWN EVERY THING. DONNA lies. Thats what I hear any way.
Posted by Mark_YH, 08-30-2004, 07:39 PM
You would still be bound by your privacy policy and cannot just disclose financial information. The scenario could be that Donna and An will suffer irreconcilable harm from that statement and that it was a punitive effort on the part of managed.com to entice her clients to go to them directly. She has a case. @dk2 That isn't correct. Managed.com can make a statement that there is nothing wrong with their network and clients should contact An but they cannot publicly disclose past due amounts or payment histories. As for DedicatedNow, I should have qualified that by saying I used them when they were located at the NAC Datacenter. I can't speak to their new Datacenter or services...
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 07:40 PM
I sent her a get well soon card when I heard she was sick a few weeks ago. I'm hurt that she lied to me directly when I asked about AN's stability 10 days ago.
Posted by girl.conf, 08-30-2004, 07:45 PM
From the ANz forums: http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index...986&st=135
Posted by 3en, 08-30-2004, 07:46 PM
STFU Mark_TVI. Sorry to be so rude. Donna has just screwed us over.
Posted by Naes, 08-30-2004, 07:47 PM
You are not their customer. How do they know what to bill you? How do they know what you owe in bandwidth? They don't. The best thing they can do is demand payment from AN. If that fails, then maybe they might start working out one on one deals but I wouldn't expect that on day 1. And I wouldn't expect it to be under $100 a pop. Someone has to pay that 70k and you know managed.com does not want to just absorb it. I've been on the other side of this before and can tell you it is no fun breaking down 80+ customers bills when you have no idea who they are, what they paid etc.... And that was on a 35k balance that was outstanding.
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 07:52 PM
I disagree, since AN themselves have detailed their financial condition for all the world to see: Burst, TMS, the "stolen" management clients mentioned in the email they sent out, and so on. AN torpedoed any case they might have be creating their own bubble of impact to their reputation. It's difficult to prove irreparable harm when one has already provided information that could be harmful to one's own reputation and demonstrates a truthful issue (regardless of dollar amount) related to the viability of the company, the impact of current operations, and future progress. But we'll agree to disagree on that. If Donna were stupid enough to try it, she'd get stomped into the ground by any competent attorney during deposition. Plus, managed would turn right around and sue her not just for fees lost, but the time and money they're spending answering queries from her clients, since AN has failed to do so. And just lke the DN situation, if it came down to that, legal documents are matters of public record. Think AN wants their entire history spilled out? That might mean even more (mis)information coming out and contradicting statements AN has made in public. Somehow, I think Donna would like to avoid that as much as possible, given all the questions swirling around about them at this minute, because it's probably a lot worse than it appears right now. Regarding DN: doesn't matter to me where their servers are. It's the business and communication habits that cause me to recommend against them.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 07:55 PM
This is the message from August 16th. I stopped making backups a few days later (again, doing so was taking hours because I was having problems with backing up in the first place) when Donna personally told me everything was stable and the servers would not be pulled. I was foolish to not leave then. Waiting for my NAC server.. over an hour now, hope DA install is done soon.
Posted by mil22, 08-30-2004, 08:07 PM
Hmmm. 200 servers turned off for a $70000 bill that hasn't been paid since June. That's about $350 per server. They were only selling them for $50-$100 a month. That's some serious backlog of payments!
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 08:10 PM
The entire AngelNetworkz forum database has been physically deleted. Last edited by Dan Grossman; 08-30-2004 at 08:15 PM.
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 08:15 PM
It works out to about 116 plus change per server if you take it over three months. The problem with this, as with everything else related to AN, is the math. Look at the prices on managed's page, and then compare that to what AN was pricing those servers at, since I'm finding no information on colo at managed, and don't believe AN owned any equipment anyway. Even if they got a slightly bigger discount on each box, with Fantastico and cPanel (bth of which they offered at no additional charges) added on top of the server cost, AN was making little to no profit per server. That doesn't bode well for paying things. Like employees. Even Kevin, posting during the Burst crisis, said the company was built on small profit margins. I'm surprised they lasted this long.
Posted by Homer-HB, 08-30-2004, 08:17 PM
Nah, the SQL servers down from what I can see. Though, I dunno. I'm too tired to make a rational say so. I smell coverup though...
Posted by timdorr, 08-30-2004, 08:17 PM
And I'm not asking them to. I'm asking for service connectivity back, which is what they CAN sell me.
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 08:17 PM
That would be typical of their way of dealing with things, wouldn't it?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 08:17 PM
I assume that's the Jon LaGaipa or something like that that's on the PayPal account we pay.
Posted by TMX, 08-30-2004, 08:22 PM
That's what she does best. Donna has been on my radar for about fifteen months now due to another unrelated situation. Her entire history in the time since, as well as that of her company (IMO, I don't believe that you can seperate the two), has been a series of red flags, one right after another. In my opinion, she's a pathological liar, and simply makes it all up as she goes along. At any rate, I wish you and everyone else who has been screwed by this situation all the best in getting yourselves sorted out. -B
Posted by jmcgon, 08-30-2004, 08:23 PM
wow im freaking out here, anyone got some mercy space on their server?
Posted by Yikes2000, 08-30-2004, 08:26 PM
Has anyone met ANz staff (Donna, Rachel, or anyone else) in person? Could it be possible they are all just one person? I am sitting here reading all these bad news, the thought occured to me.
Posted by IamHalam, 08-30-2004, 08:28 PM
I know at least Jon and Donna are real...I've seen pictures of both.
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 08:29 PM
The SPEWS thing, right, where she claime to know who the admins were? I almost posted that bit from the Burst forums in addition to some of her greatest hits from here at WHT, but figured that would cause a bigger tangent.
Posted by 3en, 08-30-2004, 08:35 PM
i need help.
Posted by twidnet, 08-30-2004, 08:36 PM
That connectivity is tied to the servers leased by AN. Technically, you're right, but it's probably not going to happen. You are not managed's client. AN is.
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 08:38 PM
Who is PAYPAL *JOHNLAGAIPA"?
Posted by jmcgon, 08-30-2004, 08:41 PM
I have a hard time believing that managed would give up 200+ clients because they refused to recover their losses on one of their clients who resold their servers.
Posted by Knuttz, 08-30-2004, 08:45 PM
I did sent some e-mails to Managed.com, but will paste here only the final answer they gave me: humpf
Posted by jmcgon, 08-30-2004, 08:48 PM
They better redistribute the harddrive to me. If this is the case everyone thats getting screwed needs to organize what can best be described as a union, 200+ people is like 20-40k/month and managed.com cant ignore that kind of money speaking as a voice.
Posted by TMX, 08-30-2004, 08:55 PM
I posed that exact question to someone last night. I have neither proof nor evidence, but my gut feeling is, and has been for a while, that rachel and donna are one and the same. -B
Posted by westcan, 08-30-2004, 09:02 PM
The irony.
Posted by TMX, 08-30-2004, 09:03 PM
Yeah, that's about where it started. "dferetti" = me. She had a few doozies in news.admin.net-abuse.email as well. Pretty much everyone there had her pegged right off the bat though. If you do a google groups search on xangelx, I'll bet the posts are still there. -Bob Last edited by TMX; 08-30-2004 at 09:17 PM.
Posted by RossH, 08-30-2004, 09:21 PM
Have we learned the lesson about going through a reseller yet?
Posted by hostbox, 08-30-2004, 09:22 PM
Yes Daddy where's our cookie?
Posted by mil22, 08-30-2004, 09:25 PM
What about a company like ServerMatrix - do you regard them as being a reseller? Just curious. We host there.
Posted by Paul, 08-30-2004, 09:28 PM
Well ServerMatix belongs to ThePlanet, ThePlanet owns one of the biggest Datacenters in the Dedicated server field
Posted by Samuel, 08-30-2004, 09:42 PM
Salt on wound (Instead of what I was going to post)
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-30-2004, 09:45 PM
Thank god for .info and NAC. It's just about 3 hours after I noticed my server down, and I have a new server with DA installed, new nameservers already working (thank you .info), and my main websites slowly starting to come back up as I restore two week old backups (again thank you .info for instant registry updates). Since my database backup is old, assuming I have no problems copying what I do have, I will have lost about two weeks of DB data. I have current copies of actual websites and code, just not the database. That's a bit over 400 order records, and two weeks of data at my free counter service (that'll be about 1500 angry people once I have e-mail up again). Even if it takes days or weeks to get it back, somehow gaining access to my AN server would allow me to patch the hole in my databases at any time, and that data would be as useful in a few days as now. I can hope for all of us that we get some access, although it's unlikely.
Posted by nybble, 08-30-2004, 10:51 PM
Managed.com says Angelnet owes 17K from the past few months. Aim Convo: Me: Any hope in us seeing our servers? Me: Like, just for a few seconds to get some data? Them: dont know Them: dont care Frig :-( If anyone wants to paypal me some money to help me back on my feet and maybe credit some people feel free =(
Posted by Raptors, 08-30-2004, 10:53 PM
17k or 70k?
Posted by nybble, 08-30-2004, 11:06 PM
70 even, small typo
Posted by Kid Canada, 08-30-2004, 11:21 PM
Does any one have any news on the Managed servers?
Posted by optimumd, 08-30-2004, 11:29 PM
Yes, they are still down, who knows for how long.
Posted by Project X, 08-31-2004, 12:10 AM
is this the same francisco that was also screwed by noc24? if so, man, that must hurt!
Posted by Project X, 08-31-2004, 12:20 AM
apparently angel is no longer a client, thus the privacy policy isnt really relevent
Posted by Kid Canada, 08-31-2004, 12:32 AM
Still waiting.....
Posted by TMX, 08-31-2004, 12:40 AM
AN is a client until their contract with managed (or whoever) is officially terminated, which I can pretty much guarantee isn't tonight. -B
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 12:42 AM
No word from any staff older than 15 or on the payroll.
Posted by AbsolutelyFreeWeb, 08-31-2004, 01:37 AM
Even though paypal doesnt refund intangible goods, if many customers complain they will start an investigation and chargeback. Your best bet to get your money would be that. Of course if every1 pulled out their money, it will sure be the end of AN if it's not that right now
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 02:04 AM
I won't attempt a complaint/chargeback after only a few hours downtime. Once it becomes clear there's no chance of the servers coming back, that's another matter. I have about 2400 combined users of various free services I host that would love the two weeks of statistics and guestbook posts since my last database backup. Last edited by Dan Grossman; 08-31-2004 at 02:07 AM.
Posted by BitOMagic, 08-31-2004, 02:31 AM
They're working on getting everything backup..
Posted by jheslop1, 08-31-2004, 02:35 AM
I'm sure they are.
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 03:03 AM
Okay, its been a long time now :@
Posted by AbsolutelyFreeWeb, 08-31-2004, 03:08 AM
what do you mean working on getting servers back up exactly? are you unaware of http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=986 ?
Posted by BitOMagic, 08-31-2004, 03:10 AM
Uhh yes.. Rachel posted an update. Donna is already working on this, we were out most of today at Doctors appointments and didn't get back till shortly before the servers went offline. She is already in contact with managed.com to get the servers turned back on. The short version of events being lies and exaggerated details about AN have been posted all over WHT, mostly by competitors, made someone nervous enough to put a hold on an arrangement we already had made. Hopefully Donna and Steve will have this sorted out shortly. -------------------- Rachel Marsden Angel Networkz
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 03:14 AM
Is their a time frame? Ed
Posted by BitOMagic, 08-31-2004, 03:15 AM
Ed, No one knows that yet... I just copied and pasted that from the forums.
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 03:17 AM
Oh lol, i didnt see that on the forums. xAngelx Ed
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 03:36 AM
Anyone know who steve is at AN?
Posted by Elixant Adrian, 08-31-2004, 03:39 AM
I think he's managed.com's CEO or something. Last edited by Elixant Adrian; 08-31-2004 at 03:44 AM.
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 03:41 AM
Thanks, btw Adrian, this is StOrM. I believe you used to be on my MSN list
Posted by twidnet, 08-31-2004, 03:44 AM
Don't bother posting to the forums unless you're not going to ask any tough questions. I'm now banned, and see that Jon, in his infinite wisdom has accused me of hosting a proxy on managed.com's servers. Since he posted up the first IP they banned, it makes it very intereting, since any dunce could look up the IP and see where it is. So, sorry to break it to that idiot, but that is not only not true, AN - in true service to their clients - has blocked me again, this time from an AOL IP when I tried to post again asking my questions. So those of you using AOL who are greeted with the "you're not allowed to use this board" message can thank AN for it. This is the way they treat their clients: poorly, and without a shred of remorse for the things they have screwed up. Anyone who continues to use AN, in my opinion, is a fool. If you haven't learned by now that the company is a disaster, you deserve what you get. And to the AN people, who are reading this even though they pretend to ignore WHT: congratulations on cementing your position as the number one customer-unfriendly and incompetent host. You worked hard at it, so it's only fair that you get to enjoy the rewards of your efforts, like posts from people telling others to stay away from you.
Posted by lazee, 08-31-2004, 03:59 AM
ok this is really starting to irritate me. Before i didn't mind too much... but when i get yelled at by a client, that really irritates me
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 04:04 AM
Yep, this has gone too far now
Posted by sprintserve, 08-31-2004, 04:05 AM
If they can't meet their financial obligations, they should do the next right thing: which is to sign an agreement for Managed.com to bypass them and help turn up their clients servers for them to grab their data.
Posted by Elixant Adrian, 08-31-2004, 04:07 AM
I don't think they'll be able to get 70k any time soon...hopefully donna & managed.com will be able to work something out... Oh, Hi storm
Posted by intlhost, 08-31-2004, 04:41 AM
chatting with 2 staff from angelnetworkz. my servers from AN are down but the one with tomsyer isn't. All the servers are from managed.com. I was told that AN owes Managed.com big amount of money, servers will go online only after they pay. Is it true??
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 04:43 AM
Yes, it is true.
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 05:12 AM
http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1003 donna has spoken
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 05:26 AM
http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index...pic=1003&st=15
Posted by Intersabre, 08-31-2004, 07:17 AM
Donna said servers would be up "tomorrow afternoon". But she referred to Tusday as tomorrow, which is actually today. So is it going to be another 12 or 36 hours?
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 07:36 AM
Yeah, but at that time of posting it was monday, 11pm or someting
Posted by Intersabre, 08-31-2004, 08:04 AM
http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index...pic=1003&st=15 The post says: Posted: Aug 31 2004, 04:22 AM
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 08:08 AM
Aug 31 2004, 10:22 AM for me. Its in your local time. (mines GMT)
Posted by Intersabre, 08-31-2004, 09:33 AM
So in how many hours would it be "afternoon" for Donna?
Posted by DeltaAnime, 08-31-2004, 10:52 AM
Welp, donna is EST, and managed is PST. Right now it's going on 8AM, so it'll be lunch time for Donna ~Francisco
Posted by hostbox, 08-31-2004, 11:00 AM
For me the future with AN isn't clear. What I see comming is not good, even if she does what she is telling us that she will do, we're still going to be disapointed. And I have a big feeling that what donna said won't happend, lets wait and see.
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 12:42 PM
Well there you have it, Angelnetworkz servers were shut off because of posts at WHT, now isn't that a riot....... haha Bills Donna, pay yee bills maiden
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 12:42 PM
Meh. It's afternoon, where are those servers *shakes fist at Verisign for slow registry preventing rapid DNS updates*
Posted by Studio64, 08-31-2004, 12:44 PM
I have a sales ticket open w/ Managed At this point I simply want to buy access through them (Managed) to get to my servers to migrate my data... Anyone else have a positive result by going down this path? Or can anyone from Managed speak to this option?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 12:47 PM
Their response has been solid that the only way any of those servers are coming up is if AN pays the bill. Best bet for any access in short-term (i.e. hours/days) is to hope Donna does have a plan as she says.
Posted by sprintserve, 08-31-2004, 01:12 PM
I suspect any plan or options as she says it involves more money out of pocket for you beyond what was contracted. That's still pretty much the same bottomline: you paid for something, and you didn't get it.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 01:20 PM
Several have posted similar messages to this from managed.com, the last sentences of which lends some credibility to the possibility of an arrangement being made:
Posted by lanesharon, 08-31-2004, 01:58 PM
I have asked managed.com for my data. I got that same canned response. Is there anyone on this forum that can explain the legalities of this situation? Does managed.com own my data? I thought I did. HMMMM I liked what one person said here - they are holding the data hostage. But, that does not help me. I need to know what is the legal responsibility here. I am usually an easy going person. This last month the downtime caused by Angel's non payments has brought me to the boiling point. I came off of a server because of similar problems. So, I literally stepped out of the frying pan and into the fire. Yeeeeesh I cannot access my data and part of my website was dynamic. I can rebuild one section of it and go with the last backup for the dynamic section, but it will be a lot of work and expense for me. I am not complaining. Just trying to get back up and running. If I knew who was legally responsible for releasing my data, then I would push them. But, I have no idea who is. Any legal guidance would be warmly welcomed. Thanks.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 02:04 PM
Well, isn't it obvious? You pay AngelNetworkz for your server, AngelNetworkz is legally responsible for providing it. You are not a customer of managed.com, you have never paid managed.com for your AN server, they have no responsibility to you.
Posted by Knuttz, 08-31-2004, 02:20 PM
Yes Dan, but the DATA on the server belongs to ME, not to AN. They would not have legal problems in allowing the rightfull owner of the data to get what legally belong to him.
Posted by edwardw, 08-31-2004, 02:26 PM
that data can be illegal to look at though, down to the DPA. It will be in managed's privacy policy somewhere
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 02:28 PM
Currently the data is on someone else's property, so unless you have some sort of injunction, you're SOL
Posted by lanesharon, 08-31-2004, 02:39 PM
I asked, they denied me the data.
Posted by Naes, 08-31-2004, 02:49 PM
Exactly. The data is on their customers box. That customer is AN. If AN is truly going to lose those boxes for good (and I have no idea if that is true or not, just thinking out loud) they should contact Managed and authorize Managed to speak with the people who sub-leased the boxes from AN. Managed could then work out deals with those clients without breaching any anti-compete / "we promise not to steal your customers" type of agreements.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 02:52 PM
They can't sell or distribute your data, that would violate copyrights, but I don't know of any legal reason they have to give you access to it either, seeing as you're not their customer.
Posted by samcohen, 08-31-2004, 02:53 PM
I have consulted with a very successful class action lawyer over this issue, to see if they would be able to go to court to force managed.com to turn on the servers. They said managed.com might be liable or they might not, depending on the federal laws. I also spoke with a reporter at the SF chronicle who also didn't know, but said simialr things happen regularly when companies go out of business. The lawyers said they would be willing to go to court if they can find, or I can help find any statutes that might protect the owners of their data in this type of scenario. If anyone knows of any such laws, please post here. Thanks
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 03:02 PM
All a court will do is to verify your'e the legal owner of the property (The data), wether the court will issue an injunction or not is up to the mandate they must follow (Their reach of control), best to talk to an attorney though, just speaking from common sense. This is a regular thing so filing and going through with this isn't a nightmare, if you must do it, that is what it is meant for, proving you are the legal owner to something is the only way you can get your data as AN seems to want to hold it hostage from you, and managed is holding it from AN, which is not Managed's fault, its AN's
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 03:02 PM
Several have posted that their ThePlanet servers from AN have been offline for about 3 hours now. That doesn't bode well for AN recovering.
Posted by FireStormNET, 08-31-2004, 03:03 PM
Looks like things are ready to implode, reports from AN forum is that boxes at TMS or TP are being pulled again. Jim
Posted by Knuttz, 08-31-2004, 03:03 PM
That's precisely my point, nothing forces them to give me access to my data, BUT nothing prevents them from doing that. They do not need to access nor do ANYTHING at all, only plug back the machines. They wouldn't even need to touch the machines. It is only a matter of goodwill and respect to those who in good faith are the final consumers of their products, we may be leasing it from a resseller, but IT IS a Managed.com product. And in the end, if Managed.com deny access to the data and decide just to redistibute the servers, they would just be acting in BAD FAITH and a complete lack of respect toward the end users of their product.
Posted by mpalamar, 08-31-2004, 03:09 PM
The data is yours but there is no law that states they have to give you online access to recover a backup. I seriously doubt a court would give an injunction requiring Managed.com to turn on your server at no cost to you. A quick google search revealed the following links. BTW: It's also a law firm. http://www.fbm.com/index.cfm/fuseact...cDiscovery.cfm
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 03:29 PM
You're forgetting one very powerful point managed has made, don't pay? no access. Sounds like they were more forgiving than they should have been, if this doesn't get through to you about their position and why they are forced to do this then you aren't trying to see their side, only yours. Which under the circumstances I can understand the stress.
Posted by sandanista, 08-31-2004, 03:34 PM
Saw a post on angelnetworkz forum that managed.com will sell or prepare to sell the boxes in 3 days?? Don't know if there's any truth to this - just left ANz myself and signed up with liquidweb. My clients with AN may have lost their data though but this is covered in my tos thankfully, though it doesn't exactly make me look good
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 03:43 PM
Had a new server up within 2 hours of the first downtime last night thanks to NAC (15minuteservers.com). The first of my domains, .info ones, resolved instantly upon DNS change. The .com domains have just started resolving right now, and I'm setting up Outlook to retrieve mail from both the old and new servers (hoping the AN server comes back). I still desperately need the data on my server, and it's prepaid for a few more months, so I'd like to get my money's worth as well. After September 8th, issues like this won't occur. Assuming you keep backups, the .com registry will be near-instant like the .info registry has always been. That means you can register new nameservers, update all your domains, and move to a new server in under 10 minutes. Any of your customers that are around and change their DNS have their sites up in just minutes as well. I'm glad Verisign is finally moving to more than twice daily updates.
Posted by Knuttz, 08-31-2004, 03:47 PM
Actually Samuel, they (Managed) let the situation reach this level. If AN was in default, they should had pulled the plug within some days, if that had happenned we would not be facing a 70K default between AN and Managed, that lead Managed to do what they are doing now. In a short term default situation, everything is easier to be solved. My data, and other AN's costumers data, at this moment is, as stated by someone before, a hostage. This is not a scenario that just poped in front of Managed's face, it was built during the last 90 days...
Posted by Ww333, 08-31-2004, 03:49 PM
I think managed was trying to be nice, and let them slide for awile, as AN was probably feeding them lies about how they will pay.
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 04:02 PM
This is AN's fault, not managed's. AN skirts responsibility enough without having their disgruntled customers do it for them. It is not Managed's responsibility to notify YOU
Posted by sandanista, 08-31-2004, 04:05 PM
True, but it would have made a lot of sense if managed.com cut AN a long time ago, when the debt was something managable, not $70k
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 04:07 PM
If, if, if Kinda doesn't matter does it "If they had", point is they didn't, and upstream vendor choices become very important when "HOSTS GO BAD!"
Posted by sandanista, 08-31-2004, 04:09 PM
true true, I've parted company with AN and managed now, something I was planning to do today anyway
Posted by akatay, 08-31-2004, 04:34 PM
Me personally I'm shopping for a new dedicated server to buy within the hr. Anybody have any suggestions? Min Specs: 2.4 Ghz Celeron 1000 GB transfer 512 Ram 80 gb hd CPanel/Whm 10 ip's I'm leaning towards 15minuteservers.com HostnetWay.com or Sagonet.com right now if anyone knows a better one or has comment on these please help me out, thanks!
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 04:39 PM
15minuteservers doesn't offer cPanel.
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 04:40 PM
I'd recommend fastserver's 128 a month deal, excellent support on premium bandwidth www.fastservers.net
Posted by sandanista, 08-31-2004, 04:48 PM
maybe try liquidweb.com - I just signed up with them and they had very friendly staff, I can't give any real recommendation as I just signed up with them, but they seem to have a good rep here on WHT
Posted by akatay, 08-31-2004, 05:01 PM
Thanks for mentioning that it seems to be their biggest drawback. They offer Direct admin instead. How is Direct admin in comparison to CPanel? fastservers.net falls a lil short on bandwidth (900 gb) & ip addresses (only $2 for 8 more). Last edited by akatay; 08-31-2004 at 05:04 PM.
Posted by BigBison, 08-31-2004, 05:09 PM
Let's say you do go to court to sue or get an injunction or whatever. It is required, first, to show monetary damages against yourself or your company, punitive damages don't figure into the equation -- that's your time, stress and ruined reputation, btw. Any competent attorney for the defendant will make you look like a fool inside of 15 minutes for not having a current backup. You won't be able to convince a jury that you've suffered because of 'DNS propagation lag'. They don't get it, so you won't get it, so to speak. The expert witness for the defense will make a lot of sense explaining what a backup is, and inferring your level of competence from it. Sorry, I know, sorry. That's just real life biting you on the ***. Plenty of people on that jury will know the importance of backing up data on their personal machines or will have read Michael Crichton's "Disclosure" (you know, the one Demi starred in the movie of) or otherwise been exposed to the concept of the backup. That's what jury selection is about. You could opt to bypass the jury and be heard by a judge, but that injunction is unlikely at best. And you have better ways to blow your hard-earned dough than a trial lawyer worth his salt to even attempt a lawsuit for damages. You'll get what you pay for, a schyster willing to work for a percentage of a positive judgment. Sorry. I'll stop now. My point is, you have better things to do with your time! Restoring confidence in *your* clients - sending them an e-mail saying that you're suing your provider won't do that. I'm getting a real kick out of MC's forums being url-forwarded onto xenahercules.com !
Posted by akatay, 08-31-2004, 05:20 PM
I agree with him it will too hard to sue. so pick up and move on to.....any last suggestions?
Posted by samcohen, 08-31-2004, 05:30 PM
That's why there are class action lawsuits. It all depends on what the law says with regard to managed.com's right to maliciously withhold data from its rightful owners. I spoke to two attorneys who handle cases like this, and they said it wasn't clear one way or another. It is very possible that managed.com can be help responsible for all the damage that they caused by pulling the plug. Also, if managed.com is operating illegally they can be forced, immediately to turn the servers on.
Posted by BigBison, 08-31-2004, 05:39 PM
Careful. There's also the matter of precedent. Can you point to other instances of your desired outcome? No? Can you find actual statutes to help any type of tort attorney? That's the maybe-maybe not - those statutes have yet to be applied to hosted servers, to the best of my knowledge. But what about managed's tos? I'm sure it says in the event of nonpayment they will re-absorb the servers in some specified fashion. Have they deviated from this? Until you can answer those questions, spend your money on beer. I can't link to my own thread, but I was promoting a class action by AOL customers a couple months back, over the issue of 93 million screennames being stolen due to utter negligence on AOL's part. They were owned in the exact same way as they were four years prior to that, at the expense of some 40 million screennames, and in both cases everything else like home addresses and telephone #s, except bank/cc numbers thankfully. I'm not saying I know why, but there have to be reasons you haven't already seen class-action lawsuits against , if you get my drift. Precedent. Costs big time to establish it. Tort lawyers live off of established precedents, not pioneering new legal frontiers. There's hundreds of years of precedent for most issues not related to - you guessed it - Internet. Last edited by BigBison; 08-31-2004 at 05:44 PM.
Posted by samcohen, 08-31-2004, 05:49 PM
While I agree it is not cut and dry, it's easy to be flippant about it if you weren't seriously hurt by this. Some people may seriously suffer and their whole livelihoods might be ruined. Regardless of whether or not they should have backed up or not. In one case, a woman I spoke to who runs a medical site has a lot of confidential information in her database. How will her clients, who have put their trust in her feel when she says that it is lost, or that someone else has it, but they won't give it back. I launch an internet business a week ago. My credibility may be ruined beyond repair. This is extremely serious for some people.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 05:54 PM
My file backups were up-to-date. My database backup was two weeks old. I know, my bad. Now I have e-mail back up for a few of my domains, and customers are mailing asking about order statuses and I have no records of about 450 orders. You know people... they'll use a different e-mail address AND name when contacting you than when ordering, so I can't even find payments for most of these people. It's very frustrating trying to sort out customers with only PayPal and credit card receipts. If only I could get the server for a few minutes, I could export the database...
Posted by TechIntervie, 08-31-2004, 06:02 PM
Anyone know of any caching services beyond Google cache and Archive.org, where it's possible to find some recent data, like the site updates over the past 5-6 days that didnt make it into the last backup?
Posted by BigBison, 08-31-2004, 06:05 PM
I didn't mean to sound flippant. I'm offering some honest advice that's tough to hear, that your reputation is best repaired by devoting your resources to communicating with your remaining clients rather than attorneys. The long-term loyalty (and referrals) you can gain could far outweigh the immediate costs. In the case of medical databases, etc. I'm not saying there aren't any valid cases out there. Just not nearly as many as most people seem to think.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 06:15 PM
Yahoo! has caches as well. I recovered the last two weeks of blog posts from the Google cache.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 06:18 PM
Over 24 hours down, this could be worse than the DedicatedNow incident.
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 06:22 PM
Isn't a little suspicious that the provider (AN) didn't at least warn people with a subtle (Remember to back any and all data regularly) when they became aware of their own situation in June? Looks like your provider did not only the wrong thing, but the least possible.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 06:25 PM
It was worse than not saying anything...
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 06:26 PM
So she lied ahhaha, damn... dispicable.
Posted by lanesharon, 08-31-2004, 06:28 PM
I am the lady who has confidential medical data being held by managed.com because of Angel's non payment of their bill. Now, you may say that is a stupid thing to do, but it was being housed in a private, secured, database for other rare cancer patients to review to find treating physicians and centers for their rare cancers. Identifying information was stored, but never displayed on the website. We all need to look at the legality of the hosting system. If my information is 'housed' on your host, your terms of service should protect me. But they don't if you are buying your space on someone else's box. If I have one or two layers of resellers between me and the box, then I am totally unprotected. So, all the security software I can purchase is absolutely useless. What if I were an ecommerce site, with credit card information? SSL's and encryption software would not protect me against these circumstances. And the owners of the box are not legally accountable to me at all, because they are protected by the layers of resellers between us. Their employees could harvest those account numbers, and no one would be legally responsible. I am in a very bad situation right now, through no fault of my own. I did everything I could to make my databases as secure as possible. They weren't. They may be sold to a 'stranger' that would have access to that information because of the non-payment of a bill by the original hosting company. How do I explain that to the kids whose privacy I just violated, unknowingly?
Posted by mpalamar, 08-31-2004, 06:28 PM
I was on the winning side of a multi million dollar settlement from a class action law suite. The award was a check for $0.97. Class action law suites are a waste of time for everybody except the lawyers. A civil suite will also look at who is responsible for the downtime/data loss and how the downtime/data loss could have been prevented or decreased. Personally, I think AN is 100% responsible but you have to look at your own actions that should have prevented this situation. Most books on ecommerce hosting(a reseller account is ecommerce) tell you to have backups in a remote facility. DNS books tell you to have dns servers in several different geographic areas. These two steps alone would have minimized downtime and data loss. How do you think a jury would divide up the responsibilty if you didn't follow the steps published by industry profesionals for running an ecommerce server? There are specific laws(HIPPA) that pertain to medical demographic information. The medical company is supposed to have signed privacy contracts with all companies that have some control over their data. Really, confidential medical information and financial information does not belong on a shared server. Last edited by mpalamar; 08-31-2004 at 06:37 PM.
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 06:30 PM
Protected, is not backed up, hate to state the obvious but you are aware that you can backup a database locally correct?
Posted by lanesharon, 08-31-2004, 06:46 PM
It was backed up but even one week worth of data, in a dynamic website of this nature, is impossible to recreate. And it is not the backup that is being questioned. It is the security of the data. One last point. AngelNetworkz is a Canadian company, Toronto Ontario, to be specific. A lot of the legal conversations we have been having may not even be relevant in Canada. I am not sure what their business law are in Canada.
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 06:52 PM
Were you a direct customer of theirs Sharon?
Posted by lanesharon, 08-31-2004, 07:01 PM
No. My account was with one of their resellers. HIPAA is as protective as it can be, but with electronic data, there is often layers of responsibility that start clouding the validity of this act. And there are many online patient databases. Some even being housed in truly shared websites, like geocities. I had a contractual agreement with my provider for security and privacy. So, it may be argued that I help up my legal responsibilites in regards to HIPAA.
Posted by Naes, 08-31-2004, 07:03 PM
While it is always hard to consider something secure... anything you put in a "dynamic website" (shared environment) shouldn't be of a secure nature. If you are dealing with *real* medical information you need to address HIPPA. If this was just sensitive information and not real medical records, you should look into a machine that you own and operate. Not something leased from a reseller.
Posted by lanesharon, 08-31-2004, 07:09 PM
I am permanently disabled, on an extremely fixed income, undergoing chemotherapy for the long term effects of my own cancer. I pay for the hosting, maintain the website (including the content) and support network. It is a financial hardship for me to do what I am doing. To pay, monthly, for a private server would take my whole disability income.
Posted by cooldude919, 08-31-2004, 07:50 PM
i have a server thats through TMS, it hasnt gone down at all throughout this whole ordeal, and it is still up at this time. Im keeping my fingers crossed.
Posted by Kid Canada, 08-31-2004, 08:08 PM
it is starting to look like it Does any one have any updates or news? what time is it where Managed/ AN is? /I wish my back up was Not a week old
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 08:11 PM
As far as we know, Donna is still asleep (she went to sleep 16 hours ago). Managed isn't giving anyone info, and the only phone number I have for AN goes to a voicemail box.
Posted by Scotty_B, 08-31-2004, 08:19 PM
Nevermind dedicated now. This is cyberwings all over again but on a bigger scale.
Posted by hostbox, 08-31-2004, 08:20 PM
I will file my PP now.
Posted by lanesharon, 08-31-2004, 08:28 PM
There is an office of consumer affairs in Canada, where you can submit a complaint against any company within Canada, including e-businesses. AngelNetworkz is licensed as: xAngelx Web Hosting - Angel Networkz Donna Mercer (donna@angelnetworkz.net) +1.4168256321 Fax: N/A 3400 Midland Ave #11 Toronto, ONTARIO M1V 4V6 CA I think, at the very least, that it would be appropriate for you to submit a complaint. There is an input form specifically for this purpose: http://consumerinformation.ca/Compla...od3.cfm?810448 Also you may want to contact the Better Business Bureau in Ontario: ccbbb@canadiancouncilbbb.ca You may want to add a note that explains the amount of monies that you may have lost on your e-commerce businesses over this period of time.
Posted by intellec, 08-31-2004, 09:09 PM
lanesharon: how much hard drive space did yoru site use and how much monthly bandwidth did it pull?
Posted by RossH, 08-31-2004, 09:11 PM
Quit wasting time on the lawsuit talk, it happeneds everytime a host goes down and a thread is started on WHT and nothing ever becomes of it.
Posted by Kid Canada, 08-31-2004, 09:44 PM
what time is it where Managed/ AN is?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 09:44 PM
It's 9:44PM where AN is. It's 6:44PM where Managed is.
Posted by Kid Canada, 08-31-2004, 09:50 PM
There goes another day (& they said the server would be up this afternoon & it is now evening!!!)... How many days is it going to take to get the server's up?!?!
Posted by hostbox, 08-31-2004, 09:51 PM
And we're still down, what a relief
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 09:54 PM
Given that there has been no word from anyone in over 16 hours, I assume you've moved elsewhere by now, right? If not, I would do so. I need the information on my server like everyone else, and not having it right now is giving me 100x more work than usual dealing with customers because I have no records of orders for the past two weeks. Not to mention 700 free counter users on that site of mine now have broken counters (their accounts no longer exist), the other 1000 users have lost the past two weeks stats. Among other things. This is a wreck
Posted by Kid Canada, 08-31-2004, 10:04 PM
yeath, but the only backup is a week old & to make thing worse my web host/support forums( who is on another DC) has Gone down, so at this point in time I am stuffed
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 10:06 PM
My database backup is two weeks old, it's got a nice big gap of about 450 orders missing. I'm not about to let someone else shut down my business though. Get back up as soon as you can and keep whatever customers you can. 15minuteservers.com really is fast, and I'm pretty comfortable with Direct Admin as a control panel now. It's really nice being physically close to the server too. FTP and SSH just seems so much faster when you only have to go from eastern PA to NJ, instead of to California on Managed's horrible network.
Posted by hostbox, 08-31-2004, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by: xAngelxBrandon on Aug 31 2004, 03:39 PM URL: http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1018 For those that can't see...
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 10:26 PM
Maybe AN is related to Tim at Paradise Designs? Sure has his stench all over it.
Posted by cywkevin, 08-31-2004, 10:27 PM
That's just weird. I mean verbal threats and bad language.
Posted by Samuel, 08-31-2004, 10:31 PM
Yea, it borders on extortion hahaha, don't post what you want or we will do something bad to you, IE; regret it, so one would assume that if Brandon becomes more peeved someone will regret it, which is a threat hahaha, nice customer service.
Posted by eth00, 08-31-2004, 10:32 PM
Wow that was a pretty bad post, great customer service with open threats...
Posted by nybble, 08-31-2004, 10:38 PM
hehe, ok well in other news! Stuff is coming back? We got one place saying stuff is getting deleted And another saying stuff is ok, and coming back up soon What is really going on!? I guess all we can do is wait. Hope for the best. Assume the worst.
Posted by RyanD, 08-31-2004, 10:47 PM
*cough* cyberwings? *cough*
Posted by hostbox, 08-31-2004, 11:48 PM
Posted by the same guy... Brandon: "I wasn't trying to make anyone look bad. I was trying to make people understand. I have a business to run, servers to setup, customers to support, and a data center to try to get in process, and other stuff. I don't have time to listen to this **** and read through it to answer."
Posted by Dan Grossman, 08-31-2004, 11:51 PM

Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 12:11 AM
Good news
Posted by RyanD, 09-01-2004, 12:31 AM
heh their paypal account got locked, maybe if they took time to communicate with their customers instead of ignore them that wouldn't have happened.
Posted by hostbox, 09-01-2004, 12:34 AM
rite
Posted by Kid Canada, 09-01-2004, 01:02 AM
I guess there is No new news?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 01:04 AM
Nope. Just what I posted from Rachel, no specifics, seems to be waiting on Managed.com to allow them to go forward with whatever their plan is.
Posted by cooldude919, 09-01-2004, 02:06 AM
Just a heads up, anyone going through TMS, be sure you are completly backed up. What has been said is indeed true, unless an agreement is reached, the servers will most likely be pulled tomorrow. If you need to make an arrangement not to be shutdown, get in contact with Jose from TMS.
Posted by edwardw, 09-01-2004, 02:17 AM
My site is now up on another server
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 02:41 AM
Live downtime monitor, I had some spare time... http://www.dangrossman.info/uptime.jpg Dynamic image, PHP, built from Alertra data pulled in real-time with the Snoopy PHP class. Hope to see the servers back some time tomorrow.
Posted by Studio224, 09-01-2004, 05:07 AM
Anything new??????
Posted by Knuttz, 09-01-2004, 06:11 AM
Nothing... xRachelx told in the forums that some e-mails were sent... did anyone here recieved it?
Posted by lanesharon, 09-01-2004, 06:38 AM
Keep your eye on the shells boys. You never know which shell the pebble will be under........
Posted by dav, 09-01-2004, 09:03 AM
Hi all. My server with angelnetworkz.net (Managed.com) is down. I have heard the many messages of a plug being pulled but is there anyway I can reactivate my server by paying Managed.com direct? Or possibly could I not be allowed an hour to access all my files and transfer them over to another pre-purchased server? I cannot seem to get a reply from managed.com so I am hoping someone here with a angelnetworkz server could help me as I need those files asap (I knew I should have backed up my files). Cheers - Dav
Posted by hostbox, 09-01-2004, 09:12 AM
Well, Downtime still.
Posted by optimumd, 09-01-2004, 09:22 AM
They just deleted most of the forums over at AN so now nobody can post there..
Posted by swei, 09-01-2004, 09:30 AM
Read the numerous AN threads in the dedicated forum. As far as I can tell, no one is able to pay managed.com directly to get their site back.
Posted by Project X, 09-01-2004, 09:42 AM
thats kinda funny considering that angel was all over the place saying the outages were because of managed and manageds networks weer down. i mean, who should be suing who here? the way i see it, managed was merely defending themselves. what about all the other remarks being made about angel by other people? heck, even me! angel was run by a bunch of kids! ive seen their pics. and then the ever-funny Z at the end of their name. come on! what were you thinking?
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-01-2004, 09:54 AM
YOU chose to go with Angel, NOT managed. Nobody put a gun to your head and said "You must use angel networks". Nobody signed any agreement with managed at any time, as far as you are concerned. If you don't like the crappy service of your reseller, if you don't like the risks you take (such as this is) with resellers, then you need to get the server directly from the provider, NOT from the provider's biggest reseller. This is the SECOND time in a year (at least) that this has happened with this specific company, it's time for people to wake up and realize that this CAN happen again. You have no recourse against managed, none at all. Managed is not responsible for your servers, or for keeping them up, Angel Networks is. Managed has the right to shut them down if they feel that the server isn't being paid for, and , quite frankly I can't say that I blame them at this point. People, it's time you realized that using a RESELLER will screw up your credibility when they go down like this. It's bound to happen, resellers sell way too much and keep very little profit, meaning it's going to happen. This specific event has been warned about for quite some time, had you done your homework. You would have seen the messages from Donna saying stuff like the email here said regarding managed clients leaving. Whether it was internal sabotage or whatever, it don't matter, the fact is that their clients are and were leaving, and that they were having serious issues financially. You chose to go with them, to remain with them after that. Despite whatever Donna may have said, that is THE largest warning sign of impending doom you could possibly see, and you basically just ignored it.. Not really smart. Who's to blame for all of this? Angel? Managed? No, the customers who knew this was coming, yet didn't get their crap out in time. Like I said, the warnings were there, you just chose to ignore them. Lesson learned? most likely not. DON'T USE RESELLERS!!!!!!!
Posted by 001x, 09-01-2004, 09:57 AM
me too,give me reply from managed.com
Posted by jheslop1, 09-01-2004, 10:03 AM

Posted by jheslop1, 09-01-2004, 10:09 AM
So your saying that you want hosting you have to buy a dedicated server from a provider, such as TP, NAC, managed.com? Sorry that's how it sounds to me
Posted by Project X, 09-01-2004, 10:20 AM
nope there are many options 1.) dont be so cheap next time 2.) dont think just because you see a picture of a cute girl that she knows what shes doing 3.) get an account directly at a DC 4.) consider that if you cant afford a dedicated box, maybe you shouldnt be in business 5.) get a VPS somewhere reputable 6.) deal with adults next time, rather than kids! 7.) sign up with a company in the same country as you so youll have legal recourse 8.) ALWAYS have recent backups anyone else care to add to the list?
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-01-2004, 10:20 AM
No, I'm saying that if you want a DEDICATED server to go through reliable providers, not through resellers. The same goes for those 'reselling' WHM services, the only difference there is that they don't generally get themselves into this large of a hole.
Posted by akatay, 09-01-2004, 10:20 AM
I agree it's not Managed fault for not turning on the servers I wouldn't either if I were them. On the other hand I searched these very forums a lil' over 3 months ago extensively before I went with Angelnetworkz. Their reputation was very good! There was no mention of the previous times they've done this very same thing so it's not just the customers fault for trusting the company! I was happy with AN for 3 months with no downtime until this so I wasn't on here constantly researching webhosts as I have enough to do building my six websites. I just found a reseller for Sagonet who's local to me. You would suggest I bypass him and go straight to Sagonet even though I can go to his office and call him on his cell? Remember everybody's not a all mighty, know all server master.
Posted by lanesharon, 09-01-2004, 10:21 AM
I have a very small not for profit website for adult rare cancer and pediatric cancer patients. I need inexpensive hosting because of my own financial limits. I currently have an account with upper limits of 400MB of space and 10GB of bandwidth. I fit easily into that account. The monthly amount is $5. That is through a reseller. I doubt if any hosting company is going to give me a direct account for that small size and money. There are those of us out here who have to rely on resellers. That does not mean that we should not be afforded a safe, secure, stabile hosting company. I am in the market for a company that could replace my current service. If you guys have any suggestions, I am all ears...
Posted by Project X, 09-01-2004, 10:32 AM
a lot of companies will offer free or reduced price hosting to non-profits. i was under the impression that they were only doing dedicated and reseller hosting not hosting to individuals. thats another thing, i dont think id want to be a client of theirs if im also competing with them for clients!
Posted by hostbox, 09-01-2004, 10:36 AM
Good Point, as a matter of fact THAT servers was the backup server, where all the servers upload the backup to. And a client was hacked and he needs the backup
Posted by Knuttz, 09-01-2004, 11:03 AM
My server had one extra HD for backup purposes... I was not worried in get my server cancelled as I had never been overdue in any payment. I was worried in hardware faillure... By what I've been reading here it looks like everybody does daily backup to off datacenter servers. I just couldn't afford the bandwith to do that. Managed.com is holding hostage sensitive information. Many people, including me, would pay to get their information back. I can prove my ownership on the server. The problem resides in the fact that Managed.com let it loose with AN for too long, and now are using the data to force us to do their job, that is to collect AN's payment. There is no doubt about the fact that AN is the bad guy on this situation, but if AN is not capable of resolving the problem, there is no excuse for Managed.com do not try to talking directly to server owners (who are anyway contacting them). That's only a matter of good will and good faith. Last edited by Knuttz; 09-01-2004 at 11:09 AM.
Posted by TMX, 09-01-2004, 11:15 AM
I think it's probably not quite that simple. Since managed leased the servers to AN, that most likely also makes any data on those servers the property of AN in the eyes of the law, regardless of who the data actually belongs to. I think that to take it upon themselves to release the data, even after they legally reclaim possession of the machines, could open up liability problems for managed. I think the only way they could legally release the data contained on the affected machines is if AN signed a release of some sort, as has been mentioned a few times in these threads. The above may not be right on the money, but I'm pretty sure it's in the ballpark. -Bob
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-01-2004, 11:17 AM
yes there is: Legal recourse can be taken if managed assumes control of your account, which they would have to do in order to allow you access to your server. Unfortunately, again, that is the problem with doing business with resellers, you have to be able to trust that they won't pull this, and, given the fact that AN has done this before, that trust is out the window. Do your research before you purchase a server next time. On a side note, any bets on who their next "provider" will be? Last time, this was done @ Burst, they moved within a few weeks. This time, it's managed, 10:1 it'll be the same thing, a few weeks then move. Anyone care to take bets on who the next provider's gonna be ?
Posted by Naes, 09-01-2004, 11:22 AM
9) If the provider you choose starts asking for donations or for you to pay for months you already paid for in order to 'keep the lights on' remember: Business is Business; How much is yours worth to you?
Posted by akatay, 09-01-2004, 11:27 AM
I never got one of those "keep the lights on bills." I would've moved right away.
Posted by lanesharon, 09-01-2004, 11:33 AM
By Canadian government standards, I would suspect that Donna has committed a crime - at both ends, actually. She has scammed her wholesaler managed.com into believing that she would eventually pay. She broke that contractual agreement. She has also committed a crime of fraud to her customers. This is reportable in Canada. If you let her run to another wholesaler without being held responsible for the damage already done, then you are going to find a whole lot more 'companies' out here doing exactly the same thing. If it is profitable, they will come.....
Posted by samcohen, 09-01-2004, 11:35 AM
I understand the liability issue from managed.com's point of view. This is what they have been saying in their emails. But what would stop them from just turning the servers on so the people effected could just back up their data. This wouldn't be a violation of any contract with AN. The only reason I can think of is that they are holding the data hostage in order to force AN to pay. If they turn the servers on and people can copy their data they no longer have anything to force AN to pay. This to me is really malicous behavior on Managed.com's part. If AN owes them money they should be forced to take them to court, not to take justice in their own hands. They have to know that the people AN resold to were given no prior warning that this would happen and are suffering serious consequences.
Posted by Naes, 09-01-2004, 11:45 AM
If they turn the service on it costs them money. Their bandwidth, power and time are not free. As AN has not paid the money already due there is no reason to turn the equipment back on and lose even more money. Until AN and Managed offcially server ties I wouldn't expect Managed to do much. You should presurre AN to inform Managed that they can pursue individual contracts for the servers in questions. AN could easily hand over a customer list for Managed to use in verifying who wants what. But if AN is truly looking / thinking to pull out of this tail spin there is no incentive to hand the customers to managed.
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-01-2004, 11:49 AM
Incorrect. That's directly from their TOS. you're NOT a managed customer, you're an Angel networks customer, therefore, effectively those servers belong to Angel networks, NOT you, with all respect to managed.com. Turning them back on would be like your landlord giving your keys to someone just because he claims to be your brother. Even if he can support the claim, that still should not be done. The legal recourse in this is quite severe.
Posted by lanesharon, 09-01-2004, 11:49 AM
I don't. They have a contractual agreement with AN. If you read their service agreement, it can be terminated within 3 days of notice. That means that the legal obligations managed.com has to AN will no longer be valid. As I have said before, I have to assume that their pulling the plug is a sign that AN was given a termination notice. That means, there may be a 24+ hour period left for that data to still belong to AN. The question I have to ask is who does it go to at the end of 24 hours? Will managed.com do the right thing and give it to the servers who are requesting it? Honestly, legally I would think that AN's non payment of service was, in essence, a termination notice to managed.com. And that happened long before the last 48 hours. We need to take a look at "who owns my data". I just found out this week, that although it is copyrighted, I do not own it. Managed.com and AN is teaching me that tricky little lesson.
Posted by TMS - JoseQ, 09-01-2004, 11:49 AM
What kind of legal recourse would there be? I'm in the same position as managed, but I do not wish for their customers through me to suffer the same consequences for their actions. Here's the way I see it. A reseller buys from a provider, and sells the same product, typically at a lower price since they buy in bulk and get some type of discount. In this case it's not a product, it's a service. If this service is cancelled (for any reason), then the server itself is no longer a (rented) Angel Networks service. It becomes the property of the provider, and they should be able to do with it as they choose. The data in the server is clearly not AN's property either, so if anything, AN's customers would be in a legal position to sue AN for not living up their contract, and irrresponsibly limiting access to the customers data. Or I could be liable, as a provider, if I provided this data to a different person than the legal owner. On what grounds could AN sue managed.com or TMS if we so desired to re-provision these servers directly to the rightful owners? I'm not trying to bash you or anything, just trying to get more information before I make a decision. JoseQ
Posted by gounder, 09-01-2004, 11:58 AM
Jose, you have put it very well. We should be able to retrieve Data from the Datacenter regardless of the situation with the Reseller. The Data belongs to us. In this situation, I thing people who would want services through Managed.com would not be reluctant to get one. Mainly due to the recourse they have chosen to take handling this situation. I for one was willing to get the service directly from Managed.com if I was able to retrieve my data.
Posted by WII-Aaron, 09-01-2004, 12:08 PM
Not trying to take sides here... Just trying to answer your question. If you are in negotiations with them. i.e. offered to take increased payments, reduce the number of servers, etc... Then an attempt by you to contact thier customers could be seen as tortous business interference and they could show that you were negotiating in bad faith. They may also claim that the customers you absorbed had not paid and that they were witholding services legitimately and that you "stole" the customer. That would be tortous contract interference. They may also claim that you had access to confidential customer information as thier provider and that you abused that knowlege by taking over thier customers. This is a VERY touchy situation and I would stay hands off for now. If you want to keep thier customers up that is your option, but the only way I see you being able to do it is if you keep Angel up. HOWEVER.... DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney. We do have one in house. I could walk down the hall and ask him if you want an authoritive answer. We've been in the same spot you're in right now and that's pretty much what he told us. Aaron Last edited by WII-Aaron; 09-01-2004 at 12:11 PM.
Posted by samcohen, 09-01-2004, 12:11 PM
I don't think that's an accurate analogy. It would be more like the power company turning on your electricity, even though your landlord, who collected money for utilities, didn't pay the bill. If managed.com turns on the server, they are not giving anything away to anyone's brother because everyone would still need passwords to access their own data. Just as they were screwed by AN, so were thousands of other people. Turning the servers on for 24 hours and taking a small hit in bandwidth and power, just to help others who were also screwed by AN, would just be the right thing to do. Whether or not they can legally withhold other people property for non-payment is not so cut and dry as the TOS. Fortunately we live in a country with consumer protection laws. You can sign lots of things, but that doesn't mean they hold up in court, and it definitely doesn't mean it is right.
Posted by On4Ever, 09-01-2004, 12:14 PM
Realize its not an update about downtime, but might be ok to post because it relates to your downtime. Lot of people have been recommending lots of alternatives. I was quite surprised to see not that many recommending TMS. TMS really rocks & I would recommend people on their servers but through their resellers & plan to move away from the resellers to go to TMS direct instead of a different DC. I guess it would be much easier for those already at TMS but not directly under them to try to get themselves directly under them which should be cake if the reseller they are under cooperates.
Posted by TMS - JoseQ, 09-01-2004, 12:22 PM
I understand your points. I just put a quick call to our law firm and they confirmed the tortouos interference claim. Unless Angel Networkz cancels their agreement with their customers, I would be interfering with that from an advantaged position. So there is no way to keep these servers online for the customers. They actually need to be put offline, our contract with AN terminated, and their contract in order terminated before they could do anything with us. Well, let's hope that AN can pull through then, or that they decide to do the right thing and give their customers the option to walk into a provider that would take care of them. JoseQ
Posted by gounder, 09-01-2004, 12:23 PM
Yes Indeed TMS is great. I had a server with them when I used to provide Hosting services. Now its mostly personal sites and friends. That was the reason for choosing AN/Managed due to service so cheap. I would highly recommend service with TMS but go direct rather them through a Reseller.
Posted by jcr 1, 09-01-2004, 12:25 PM
JoseQ: is it too much asking if closure of Texas servers is inminent?
Posted by On4Ever, 09-01-2004, 12:27 PM
If you guys (who are under TMS through a reseller) value your uptime, why dont you simply try to get a release from the reseller and buy direct from TMS? I guess you'll lose money, but uptime is probably worth that loss. Easiest way out if shutdown is unavoidable is buy a server at TMS and do a quick server -server transfer (very fast if you use the same connection / ISP link as your old server - whether TP, Yipes or HE) & then resolve your issues with the reseller at liesure. Last edited by On4Ever; 09-01-2004 at 12:30 PM.
Posted by chili, 09-01-2004, 12:30 PM
Angel Networkz is more or less silent on the entire matterincluding their own downtime. They are no responding to any email. Chili
Posted by mpalamar, 09-01-2004, 12:32 PM
This might not be a small hit depending on the the contract between managed.com and their network providers. How does managed.com pay for their pipes(full pipe, 95 percentile, metered)? Will a few hundred servers doing server to server transfers slow down their network for paying customers? Managed is already out thousands of dollars so maybe in a few days after their negotiations are finished with AN they might allow people to reactivate their servers directly with them.
Posted by hoster, 09-01-2004, 12:34 PM
The problem with that is no one at ANz replies back from nothing, emails, fourm phjone off hook. Also I have tried to contact sales at TMS and still have no reply back, I told them I was a client of ANz and want purchase a server and how long would it be to get on line. Still no replies back, - Richard
Posted by Knuttz, 09-01-2004, 12:39 PM
JoseQ, lets say that I get an other server from you. A new one, what would prevent you from plug back my AN server so I could retrive my data??
Posted by On4Ever, 09-01-2004, 12:41 PM
For legal reasons, I guess this may work faster if you make a new server purchase look as something that doesnt relate to any other server hosted there. Just make sure you are on the same conection as your old server - Yipes / HE / TP. I guess time's the essense here & you gotto really try to get him setup one for you fast *IF* the shutdown of your server through the reseller is unavoidable and likely to happen soon. Last edited by On4Ever; 09-01-2004 at 12:45 PM.
Posted by Naes, 09-01-2004, 12:43 PM
What would be interesting about this... Say the servers are only down at the border... firewall, access-list whatever.... On their internal network they are still up. So, you buy a new server in that network.... and since it is internal you log into your old machine, rsync it and ditch it. Of course, this would only work if the machines are on and accessible within the internal network. =p
Posted by On4Ever, 09-01-2004, 12:46 PM
Interesting indeed! This post could save you guys!!
Posted by TMS - JoseQ, 09-01-2004, 12:48 PM
Hmm, I didn't receive your note. Where did it come from? My spam filter must have gotten it unfortunately... =( Send me a PM? JoseQ
Posted by NDPCom, 09-01-2004, 12:49 PM
JoseQ do you represent managed.com here? Can you gurantee our data is safely stored on your servers and when this disputed is resolved in whatver way the data can be retrieved? (sorry if this has been asked before but ya kinda get bored reading the same thing on the forum in the 20 pages). Could we get a temporary board setup dedicated to this issue (directed at web hosting talk mods) since this problem affects 100s of users on this site.
Posted by On4Ever, 09-01-2004, 12:51 PM
Read his signature?
Posted by samcohen, 09-01-2004, 12:52 PM
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I'm pretty sure JoseQ was speaking hypothetically, from managed.coms point of view. I don't think he actually represents managed.com
Posted by NDPCom, 09-01-2004, 12:53 PM
My mistake. Was confused by the fact he was using "I" and "Our". Just threw me off course there. Thanks for the info.
Posted by Project X, 09-01-2004, 12:58 PM
have any of you guys posting here just pulled your backups onto a new host? seems like the most efficient thing to do at this point. i cant imagine anyone here would actually return to AN after all this!
Posted by samcohen, 09-01-2004, 01:07 PM
Some good news. I just received this email from managed.com: Hello, We're working with AN to come to an agreement for data retriveal for thier customers. Therefore, we ask for your patience and understanding. Thank you. Best Regards, Managed.com
Posted by angst7, 09-01-2004, 01:09 PM
Yeah, I pulled backups of the sites on my server (managed.com location) when all the mess was going on with the Texas location. Everything is up an running now on a seperate server. Incidentally I feel like a fool for ever posting a positive review about AN, although untill the lights went out I'd never had a problem. Here's hoping some others had an exit strategy too.
Posted by cloudrck, 09-01-2004, 01:09 PM
wow, read through 10 pages and got tired of reading... That would be the logical thing to do as a company. From what I read, it looks like AN has had some bad staff members, and should have chosen there staff better. Regardless if Donna lied or not.
Posted by Project X, 09-01-2004, 01:11 PM
im surprised that as soon as AN knew they had a problem, they didnt come here and sell off their clients! could have made even more money off the deal and restarted with a clean slate so to speak. i know when i sold off a few clients, i had buyers all over the place within 10 minutes of putting up my ad!
Posted by Knuttz, 09-01-2004, 01:21 PM
I recieved the very same question today. It is good to see a light at the end of the tunnel...
Posted by NDPCom, 09-01-2004, 01:22 PM
Great News. Now waiting on a time frame.
Posted by sprintserve, 09-01-2004, 01:22 PM
To be frank, their clients won't be worth a cent. They even had a one for one sale which you as a buyer would have to honour (And they had already collected their 3 months prepayment). So for those clients you had to service them for over 6 months for free. Um, no, I don't think the clients has value. They probably have to pay others to take them.
Posted by Coolraul, 09-01-2004, 01:26 PM
Sorry but this isnt personal privacy matters. Managed can tell the truth and only if they were lying would Angel have any legal recourse.
Posted by hoster, 09-01-2004, 01:38 PM
I have just got this email back from TMS and what this has do in ordering a server I don't no. I asked them about setup time and etc. and this is what I got back. Hello, We apologize that you have been affected by this issue. This is a serious issue between Managed.com/Angel Networkz. Unforutnately the server will not be turned back online until this issue is resolved. Due to our privacy agreement with thecustomer, only AN has the authority to give reasons to such issues to their customers. Please know that we are putting in much effort to resolve this issue. Best Regards, Managed.com
Posted by TMS - JoseQ, 09-01-2004, 01:41 PM
You clearly e-mailed the wrong people. TMS != Managed.Com. JosQ
Posted by jcr 1, 09-01-2004, 01:44 PM
JoseQ, may I ask again: are AN Texas servers going to be shut down again within hours, as the rumor says? I am a AN customer just extremely frustated by all this.
Posted by CactusCounty, 09-01-2004, 01:45 PM
hoster, Tailor Made Servers is ANz' provider down in Texas and has nothing to do with managed.com. (At least as far as I'm aware...)
Posted by TMS - JoseQ, 09-01-2004, 01:46 PM
Sorry I meant to answer your question before. I still haven't made my final decision. If the managed.com servers start to come back as some posts here suggest, that should help AN's case... but I'm on wait and see mode... JoseQ
Posted by The3bl, 09-01-2004, 01:49 PM
You are getting your providers mixed up. Managed and TMS are not the same. TMS is the Texas servers AN was reselling Manged is the CA servers.
Posted by sprintserve, 09-01-2004, 01:50 PM
All AN need to do is to sign a release form. That wouldn't have taken them 1 hour to do.
Posted by hoster, 09-01-2004, 01:52 PM
Soryy about that just getting to upset here in the last 2 days of the issue with ANz. Thanks for the info. - Richard
Posted by hoster, 09-01-2004, 01:57 PM
It was Managed.com it was my mistake in typing here, soory. - Richard
Posted by The3bl, 09-01-2004, 02:04 PM
You guys with Texas servers would be very smart to back up your data now while they are up to an offsite back up somewhere and start ordering a new server, I am sure TMS will set you up a new server if you want to stay there. If you are waiting for AN to solve this you have no one to blame but yorself if this thing goes dead and you lose everyhting. TMS is giving you a golden oppertunity to get out of this intact. Good luck to all of you and I hope Managed.com pulls a rabbit out of the hat for you.
Posted by hoster, 09-01-2004, 02:19 PM
Stupid Qustion Here Who is TMS maybe I should check them out?
Posted by Nessun, 09-01-2004, 02:20 PM
If I were one of the texas customers I'd order a server from TMS move all my stuff over an count my blessings that im not sitting on the managed.com network with server having been down 2 days with no warning. I have heard good things about TMS and they seem like a stable and good company. And although your not gonna get one of these oh my god its to good to be true deals from them like you did with AN you should realize if its to good to be true then more then likely its not true. In this case TMS makes enough money to pay their bills. They also obviously have enough proffit to stand while one of their large customers is not paying the bill.
Posted by Nessun, 09-01-2004, 02:22 PM
TMS is TailoredServers.Com - Tailor Made Servers designed to fit your needs! ICQ (222963955) | AIM (TMS JoseQ) | MSN (tailoredservers@hotmail.com) | Yahoo (tailoredservers)
Posted by hoster, 09-01-2004, 02:24 PM
I got it thanks. - Richard
Posted by Nessun, 09-01-2004, 02:52 PM
no problem
Posted by chownhosting, 09-01-2004, 03:01 PM
linuxforjaime: Any new news xAngelxMark: Jack Peterson has responded to your help desk request. ----------------------------------------------- (Jack Peterson) ----------------------------------------------- Hi Mark, Please check back tomorrow for an important update. Best Regards, Dedicated Hosting Sales Managed Solutions Group, Inc.
Posted by incript_services, 09-01-2004, 03:08 PM
so whats the update going to be.
Posted by Mark_YH, 09-01-2004, 03:10 PM
Check back tomorrow and see?
Posted by p1az, 09-01-2004, 03:12 PM
i've already ordered a replacement server with Beachcomber! If they come back online it is a bonus and I will still use my server there though.
Posted by Host4SALE900909, 09-01-2004, 03:12 PM
Guys, just wait around while people give more info.
Posted by incript_services, 09-01-2004, 03:17 PM
Ah this waiting kills.Thank God its night now and i am relieved from few calls from customer now.Tommorrow morning the same thing again.
Posted by chownhosting, 09-01-2004, 03:17 PM
If you go to the angelnetworkz forums now you will see they deleted whole sections and you no longer can log on to post.
Posted by Host4SALE900909, 09-01-2004, 03:19 PM
They will resolve it.
Posted by schronic, 09-01-2004, 03:21 PM
lol, I think that whole situation is pretty funny actually. I'm just glad that I'm not involved in it in any way shape or form.
Posted by incript_services, 09-01-2004, 03:22 PM
lets wait and watch whats go next !!!
Posted by Dj Trinity, 09-01-2004, 03:26 PM
there is nothing to see....it would be great if they came up so i can transfer server to server....anyone who would stay with angel after how they handled this situation is gotta be outta there minds
Posted by ePlanetDesign, 09-01-2004, 03:33 PM
DITTO!
Posted by TimBraz, 09-01-2004, 03:51 PM
Any updates on if we are at least going to get data back from the servers?
Posted by hostbox, 09-01-2004, 04:15 PM
Jose does Angel Networkz owe you money too? (You don't have to give us a number).
Posted by munnu, 09-01-2004, 04:45 PM
so u guys think they lost all the customers after this issue.... i am sure one who were not at managed will stay with them And i think they have been careless in their strategy n keeping track of their wats going on in their company....and now hundreds of end users are suffering
Posted by notasage, 09-01-2004, 04:46 PM
Hi, I've been lurking this forum for a while. I'm a newbie but I can feel the pain. I get it why Managed can't: 1) keep the servers up (no incentive for Angel to pay) 2) allow ANz's customers to access them directly (no legal authority to do so) But, should a situation similar to this happen in the future, what would be wrong with simply this: (substitute for "Angel" and "Managed" the unknown future parties to the next mess) mount the file systems on the ANz servers as read-only for a short time (48 hrs? 72?), before downing them completely? consequences: - web sites would not work right and ANz's customers will be p***d, thereby providing incentive for Angel to correct the relationship, if they are inclined to do so. - website admins could copy precious data, which remains on-line. - Managed would continue to incur some extra costs for outgoing b/w, but they were already apparently willing to give Angel $xx,000 slack - how much extra would we be talking? - Angel would have no legal beef with Managed; they are already in default of their contract obligations. Managed is legally justified in reducing server availability, up to and including taking them off-line, but they are also justified in taking steps short of that. Angel customers might leave, probably would, but that is their decision and is neither encouraged nor discouraged by Managed. - Managed does not need to release any information about relationship with ANz beyond "There is a dispute with this customer and we have been forced to restrict access to the servers." - i.e., essentially what they have said. - ANz customers are quickly made aware of malfunctioning websites by their own customers, but have freedom to take their own actions as to their relationship with ANz (e.g., make arrangements with another provider, copy data, and redirect DNS if they wish) - ANz customers at least maintain access to the data they own, removing a potential cause for action against Managed. - Managed generates massive good karma among admins who feel like they have dodged a bullet. Maybe this is hopelessly naive .... but it seems to split the difference of what has been suggested already, preserves legal boundaries among the players, and, at relatively low cost, minimizes the fallout from a bad situation.
Posted by chownhosting, 09-01-2004, 04:49 PM
I think at this point clients who are looking for hosting would stay away from companies who deal ANZ. They not only screwed up there name with this one, but the companies that use them have been marked. I just wish I could get a refund and move on. The problem is, I don't think many will without taking it to court.
Posted by chownhosting, 09-01-2004, 04:54 PM
Oh yeah, we are screwed all right. linuxforjaime: Anything new from Donna Jon? xAngelx Jon: i dont work here xAngelx Jon: couldnt tel you xAngelx Jon signed off at 2:50:08 PM.
Posted by above, 09-01-2004, 05:08 PM
Donna should be ashamed of herself.
Posted by mrl14, 09-01-2004, 05:17 PM
For those of you that can afford it, you should have ordered another server within hours of hearing of this. It's approaching the end of day 3 here. Thankfully the server I had with AN was for a site that only affected myself and not my clients. While it would be nice if we were able to retrieve our data, we all have to move on and begin to build up our web sites again. 2 days is too long. Too much money lost for most people. Do yourself a favour and move on for now until this is settled. Last edited by mrl14; 09-01-2004 at 05:27 PM.
Posted by lanesharon, 09-01-2004, 05:23 PM
I am up and at least partially operational. Restoration of the databases is going to take some doing, but it is not impossible. For those who questioned whether she still had a business, I strongly doubt it. The forums at that company where basically deleted and shut down. There are just a few hanger-oners trying to glean some information. At worst, she deliberately deceived her customers over the last month, and then abscounded with the money, leaving a few 'staff members' there to sweep up for her. At best, she didn't pay her Cpanel licensing bill and her hosting bill (rumored to be $70,000). And she didn't communicate the truth to her customers. Either way, this is not a lady who is responsible or trustworthy enough to head up a business and take my money. I personally believe that Donna belongs in jail. She committed a fraudulent act, and should be treated as a fraud. This is white collar crime, at it's lowest. Just my 2 cents worth.
Posted by acdtrp, 09-01-2004, 05:28 PM
I think Donna is not ashamed even a little bit... I think this was her plan a couple of months ago and how she has some money upfront maybe somewhere on vacation... damn it she even asked for more few days ago, open your eyes...
Posted by DBDave, 09-01-2004, 05:30 PM
I'm not sure about most here, but it seems that some of ANz servers are now back online... I hope that all goes well for everyone here..
Posted by Coolraul, 09-01-2004, 05:35 PM
Hmm .. a question. What happens if Angel comes back and you have say a 12 month agreement with them. Did they do that? Now you are on a new server and they try to enforce you to pay for this server. I know the immediate answer would be ^*@^^@$* but after that what?
Posted by Dj Trinity, 09-01-2004, 05:37 PM
where is this? servers from managed?
Posted by Studio224, 09-01-2004, 05:41 PM
If my ANZ server was up... I would copy my data and get the h*** out of there... Bye bye!
Posted by DBDave, 09-01-2004, 05:46 PM
I believe so... elixant.com has been down, but it's now back up again.... (I can't post it as a valid link, as I haven't made enough posts lol).
Posted by Dj Trinity, 09-01-2004, 05:48 PM
maybe on a new server?
Posted by 3dx, 09-01-2004, 05:51 PM
Probably what you are seeing are those that jumped ship, and their domains are finally propagating on their new servers. Mine are propagating slowly.
Posted by above, 09-01-2004, 05:51 PM
Most likely on a new server.
Posted by BigBison, 09-01-2004, 05:53 PM
Have you even read this thread? The only info these people need at this time needs to be coming from AN themselves, and that doesn't seem to be happening, particularly if they've deleted their forums. How do you know this? Or is this downtime the reason you're selling your hosting company? Will you be telling prospective buyers that your company is hosted on Angelnetworkz?
Posted by DBDave, 09-01-2004, 05:53 PM
Nope.. not a new server (although that is coming). The support board had not been backed up.. and it's up and running now...
Posted by 3dx, 09-01-2004, 05:59 PM
elixant.com traces back to 70.69-41-232.reverse.theplanet.com, so this is not managed.com or a step in the right direction, unfortunatley.
Posted by random, 09-01-2004, 05:59 PM
This isn't a managed.com server.
Posted by Knuttz, 09-01-2004, 06:00 PM
elixant.com is on The Planet, not on Managed.com
Posted by Dj Trinity, 09-01-2004, 06:00 PM
well done!
Posted by DBDave, 09-01-2004, 06:01 PM
My apolgise.... shows me that I should look it up before posting... :-/
Posted by Marty, 09-01-2004, 06:01 PM
That domain traces to The Planet, not to Managed.com.
Posted by BigBison, 09-01-2004, 06:08 PM
The Angelnetworkz re-sold TMS servers discussed earlier in this thread are hosted at The Planet. Just because that site is back up, doesn't mean the owner hasn't contracted with TMS or another host at TP by now, so I don't see what all the fuss is about this traceroute.
Posted by acdtrp, 09-01-2004, 06:08 PM
Look at this : elixant.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1437 the message is dated 29th of August... only if I knew I'd be switching to new servers then and not wait for the "200 more servers at Managed" to get unplugged...
Posted by BigBison, 09-01-2004, 06:10 PM
That forum post originated on the now-deleted AN forums, in fact it was xRachelx who posted the info about 200 servers will be unplugged tomorrow. Although not a customer, I saw this coming last Saturday. AN didn't bother e-mailing its customers on the California managed.com servers. There's a locked thread about it in the Dedicated forum.
Posted by acdtrp, 09-01-2004, 06:14 PM
Well this only supports my wish for very bad things happening to those people... constantly...
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 06:26 PM
Hopefully that small note posted earlier from a managed.com e-mail that they're working on a data retrieval agreement is true and will happen. I have a couple dozen mails sitting in a folder in OE that I haven't responded to yet (regarding various free services I run that accounts are now missing at, etc, not paying customers) -- because if I can get access to the database I can grab all those accounts. http://www.dangrossman.info/uptime.jpg
Posted by random, 09-01-2004, 06:27 PM
Do you realize how much work that would be for managed staff to get a login on each box and perform that work? And if they're dedicated servers with root access, what stops an admin from rebooting the box? What prevents people from using up a lot of bandwidth Lot of sites will work -- any that don't use dynamic content, many dynamic sites that only don't depend on temporary files or updates. Giving some slack to a large customer, with a previously worked out payment plan, compared to giving access to people who know they're not paying a dime more for whatever they're using at that point? The costs of hosting dedicated servers comes from the space, the power, the cooling, and the bandwidth. What you're advocating doesn't do much for Managed... other than give them an awful headache. I don't see any valid case. It's not like Managed is selling the data. Why should they be forced to provide free service? You may own the data, but not the drives on which YOU put it on. It's AN that's blocking your access by not paying the bill, not managed. ok... so.... managed eats costs... and you get your data back and don't pay any further consequences... seems like a nice deal... but there's no incentive to Managed to pay the cost for having a bad customer just for you.
Posted by samcohen, 09-01-2004, 06:31 PM
Does anyone know if there is a way to do a reverse search and find out what domains were hosted on those 200 servers that were pulled? I'd like to see the list and possible contact any large companies that might be on it to see if they know something more. I know if I lived in the San Jose area I'd be camping on their doorstep and I would know something.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 06:43 PM
If you have the IPs you can do a reverse lookup at whois.sc.
Posted by MrL22, 09-01-2004, 06:55 PM
Become a Premium Registered Member at website "whois.sc" doesnt cost much, enter an ip and will say "### websites hosted on this server" (it is a hyperlink) click it and it will list them. Standard Members only get the first 3 domains.
Posted by Project X, 09-01-2004, 07:52 PM
if you had teh proper backups, you could have minimized your downtime significantly. dont forget, the law also stats that YOU are responsible for mitigating your own damages.
Posted by jheslop1, 09-01-2004, 07:57 PM
That's awesome dan , how you doing that?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 07:57 PM
I'm VERY tired of people like you blaming everyone for what is entirely AngelNetworkz's fault. People that have been down for over 48 hours don't want to hear your completely unuseful advice. It doesn't help anyone, and it certainly doesn't make anyone feel good.
Posted by tikmok, 09-01-2004, 07:59 PM
Looks like their website is gone again (DDOS attack?). Let's see if there is anybody to fend it off...
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 08:00 PM

Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 08:04 PM
Considering many of their customers' e-mail addresses were hosted on the servers that are now down, AngelNetworkz.net going down puts them virtually out of communication with anyone. No good.
Posted by JSpired, 09-01-2004, 08:06 PM
Hi Dan, First of all, I sympathize with your AN issues! You're in a horrible position--without question. Second, I don't think Lauren meant any harm. Hosting can sometimes be a learning experience and one unfortunately in which hindsight is 20/20. As a former host and now a client, I've learned to backup my data on a daily basis--even though my host also does this task. You obviously have some experience under your belt and know what you're doing and I didn't take Lauren's comment in the same way that you did. (Then again, this isn't affecting me right now..) Best of luck to you! Again, sorry to hear of your misfortune.
Posted by Project X, 09-01-2004, 08:07 PM
dan dear, please lets face the facts... 1.) there was everything there to warn you not to do business with them in the first place, they are in fact kiddie hosts and they are not in the US (which is ok, but you want to always deal with companies in the same country as you are) 2.) YOU have said over and over again that you didnt have daily backups. 3.) in case you havent been reading my postsd (many magically disappeared) i have done nothing BUT rip on angel. 4.) if you feel you are not at all responsible for mitigating your own damages and those of your clients, then i suggest you go to google and search for liability and mitigation. 5.) managed.com is in no way at fault here. 6.) for any of you running a serious business, you should have your own machines, they really arent that expensive! 7.) i feel for all of you, remember, i went thru something like this late last year with noc24. luckily i had daily backups AND only lost one client. i was back up in less than 36 hours. why? because i was (and still am) prepared for the worst! 8.) YES i feel bad for all of you. i feel even WORSE for YOUR clients, who had faith in you.
Posted by MrL22, 09-01-2004, 08:07 PM
not that they would be communicating anyway... their responce time sucked anyway...
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 08:09 PM
50 hours and over 100 pages of combined message boards threads later, anyone that didn't have recent backups already knows that they should've and will next time. It doesn't need to be said again, so please don't, or I may burst a vein.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 08:11 PM
What is wrong with you Lauren? You're just beating on already hurt ANz customers for no reason, repeating what was said over two days ago.
Posted by samcohen, 09-01-2004, 08:17 PM
They have a word for it in German -- Schadenfreud -- taking pleasure in other people's misfortune
Posted by tikmok, 09-01-2004, 08:25 PM
Why don't people point their MX to something else (hopefully temporarily)? It takes a few days, but better late than never?Zoneedit will redirect the email to the domain they serve to a different account. Just wondering....
Posted by hostbox, 09-01-2004, 08:28 PM
Is angelnetworkz.net down?
Posted by nybble, 09-01-2004, 08:30 PM
For those of you who are still a bit slow and have not noticed... ANGELNETZ HAS LEFT TOWN. Stop bickering here on the forums and get to work to rebuild.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 08:37 PM
Their site and forum are back.
Posted by nybble, 09-01-2004, 08:44 PM
Ok well here is how I stand: Kevin has not, and will not answer his phone (I have tried like 50 times over a few weeks) Donna will not answer any emails from me for awhile now It has been 2 or more months now and I am still missing a second server drive (and now some servers), while the drive was supposed to come with the server. Donna tells me she is going to look after it personally, the next time I contact her she says I will need to give her updated cause the person looking after it was fired. xAngelx staff say on the forum they are leaving.... A staff member posts a poll on public forums "Should I quit". The last contact I had with Managed.com said they have not paid any bills since June (Does this not tell you something?) I have never gotten a bill from them.... and they don't seem to have a billing system. I have really given up, I don't care what they post saying they are working on it... to me all those posts are just "Get-away time". The longer they hold us off the more they can move and the less problems they will have.
Posted by above, 09-01-2004, 08:50 PM
Donna should use the money she owes managed.com to go to school and learn how to run a business.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 08:50 PM
I would hope that everyone with the means has already set up what they can elsewhere. The reason for following this thread and the AngelNetworkz forum is that many many people, judging by the 5 figure view counts on the threads yesterday and the day before, still want the data on their old servers. Just because we're still following the threads doesn't mean we haven't rebuilt Matt. We've just not given up on the possibility of getting data off the old servers as well.
Posted by nybble, 09-01-2004, 08:56 PM
Well, Dan as I know you... I mean, just "you" in general would have a backup for stuff like this, it's just your nature. I mean, I have never seen something like this happen to you, my guess is you got burned really good before But it seems some people are on the forums more than they are trying to fix the problem.
Posted by Coolraul, 09-01-2004, 09:01 PM
Dan, I feel for you and the others caught up in this. I agree with you that pointing out the obvious does no one any good here. I bet we are ALL learning a bit from this. I know I went and double checked my backups while following this thread. Just to be sure. Here is what I am doing to be sure we are ok. We DO go through resellers because, it makes sense financially. For the same hardware in the DC for some reason I can always get it cheaper than the DC posts but we only have 20 servers so hardly big enough to get the discounts I assume Angel got. What we did do though is: - got servers in different DC's. - Nameservers are currently on different boxes in the same DC. Didnt get around to spreading them - must hurry! - Backups across to different servers. - Servers from more than one reseller Everyone is bashing the resellers when DC's can and DO have problems. This could have as easily been Managed.com going under. No disrespect to managed I am sure they are financially sound but my point is just to illustrate that no matter what we all do, stuff happens. I made a call to my techs tonight got them on a conference bridge and pointed them to this thread to see what are we missing to avoid stuff like this. I am sure we have some stuff to fix. Good luck.
Posted by BigBison, 09-01-2004, 10:09 PM
Also, perhaps some clients (or heck, even ex-employees) who have been publicly badmouthed want a little revenge?
Posted by RyanD, 09-01-2004, 10:56 PM
It's more like common sense when you already operate on slim margains (designed to opreate that way according to them) and your costs are greater than your income you have a problem... it's not that dificult of a concept to grasp.
Posted by intellec, 09-01-2004, 11:01 PM
Since managed.com is not allowing acess to the servers, has anyone considered getting an attorney involved to get a temporary Cease and Desist (under state law) to block Managed.com from scrubbing the servers of all their data and reselling them? Also has anyone looked at slapping a mechanics lien of some type on the servers specifically since as we know that data IS really the property of the end user.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 11:05 PM
Not seeing how that would work. Aside from costs of trying such a thing if you could find a lawyer to go along with it being too high, how does the data not being deleted get you access to it? Nobody's been able to give a legal reason they'd have to.
Posted by above, 09-01-2004, 11:11 PM
ya it was a joke :/ lol
Posted by intellec, 09-01-2004, 11:19 PM
It would make sure that your data is there, if by chance AN comes through with the cash beyond a deadline date for recycling servers. Out of 200 servers, one of the reseller host has to have an attorney for that is a client willing to do it for free. Resellers with backups should have moved on by now anyway. Reseller who haven't better do a name check on their client to see if they still have them as clients. If the resellers just asked their clients if they have their own backups, just set them up on a new server. If a reseller has a week old backup, just go with that and get back to business. If managed.com decided to show a little good will and turn the servers back up, people could get their data. In return, many of those people might rent a new server from them directly. Has anybody tried that angle? I know many people talked about paying a server's bills just to get their data off but there are some issues with that.
Posted by AQORN-Adam, 09-01-2004, 11:40 PM
This is 27 pages long and I was just trying to get the bottom line (after not finding the final say 14 pages into the thread): Is Angel Networks history or are they still afloat and remain in business?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 11:46 PM
27 pages into it, we still don't know. If they were gone, I don't know why Managed would be telling people "please know that we are working with AN to come to an agreement for data retrival for their clients.". That sounds like they're still around. On the other hand, Donna hasn't written anything since she went to sleep a few days ago.
Posted by akatay, 09-01-2004, 11:55 PM
From what I can see they erased & locked the forums so that if someone does come along that's interested in getting a server from them they can take their money too. Maybe I'm wrong, just my observations.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-01-2004, 11:58 PM
The forums are still there, linked from their homepage. They're not erased or locked.
Posted by girl.conf, 09-02-2004, 12:02 AM
Right but if you visit their forums as a new user, you won't be able to view any of the current happenings. They blocked out new users (unregistered) from being able to see view certain threads, I noticed they did this last night. Once you log in though, you can see everything.
Posted by akatay, 09-02-2004, 12:04 AM
http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1039 This topic was about 16 pages long until today. They erased all the pages of client's comments and questions then put up only that one message. I know because I've had both of the forums (theirs & this one) open for the last 2 1/2 days and have been refreshing them periodically to find out more information. I didn't mean the forums were gone only that it had been censored.
Posted by akatay, 09-02-2004, 12:05 AM
He's right about that. I'm not signed in.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 12:07 AM
40 pages of cursing kids bickering with eachother wasn't helping anything. Nobody's being lead in to order servers unknowingly since AngelNetworkz can't accept payments while their PayPal account is locked, if it still is.
Posted by akatay, 09-02-2004, 12:15 AM
It's not hard to setup a paypal account. They could have 2 or 3 ready to go. What I read on those forums was more so confused customers that couldn't get any answer from their hosts than kids bickering. I just find it funny that they can find time to edit their forums but can't find time to reply to any of the comments or send out emails to their customers letting them know something. I haven't recieved any email about anything (no reply from support) and I'm all paid up.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 12:20 AM
Yes, the communication issue is unprecedented. Not only have Donna and Rachel failed to provide any meaningful information since the servers went offline, but their 'staff' dangle 'updates but we can't post the details' every few hours that just torture people waiting for access to their servers. I feel horrible for those with Texas servers that aren't aware of what's going on with the California servers and won't until theirs go offline too.
Posted by mattwade, 09-02-2004, 12:40 AM
I have (had) a texas server and luckily I read these and AN's forums. I agree with you Dan, I wish there was some way to inform others that have Texas servers...
Posted by BigBison, 09-02-2004, 01:08 AM
I seem to recall the last word from actual AN staff was along the lines of sit tight, there will be good news tomorrow - still several hours from now, here - but that the message was not to be construed as an official announcement. The problem with setting up a new PayPal account(s), however - How do you inform all your affected customers? Only a small number visit the forums, otherwise more would have seen the advance warning. How can AN e-mail customers whose servers are down, with the new PayPal info? And how do they transfer any money out of the original account, that was paid in before that account was locked? BTW, when you mention what 'page number' this is, keep in mind that you can change your setting. On maximum, we've only just begun page 11. The Paysystems fiasco was twice as many at this point... Last edited by BigBison; 09-02-2004 at 01:14 AM.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 01:12 AM
The exact page number has no relevance to anything. The length of the PaySystems thread has no relevance to anything.
Posted by BigBison, 09-02-2004, 01:26 AM
You responded before my edit, Dan. The relevance I was going for was number of customers you can expect to reach via forum posts, unless perhaps they're webhosts. I noticed a lot of rah-rah cheerleading type posts on both WHT and AN's forums. In light of that e-mail that was sent weeks ago, asking for cash now and suspending the BOGOF deal, it just seemed odd how there was no negative fallout from customers. That letter's existence didn't pop up here on WHT until after the initial TX plug-pulling. I actually printed it up days ago because it was so downright astonishing. My favorite quote: <-- typing off of printout Even if you didn't know this was a pattern, they admit they will need to look up their own records later (hey, I buy a server, I can put my finger right on that receipt...) while at the same time accusing their suppliers of losing records? Who didn't get this e-mail?
Posted by RyanD, 09-02-2004, 01:37 AM
It's been obvious all along a room full of bonobo monkeys and calculators have better accounting practices than AN. How many times have you seen / heard complaints of missing payments, lost upgrades, etc.
Posted by Intersabre, 09-02-2004, 01:45 AM
Just posted: Ok sorry for delays for forum updates, those of you who haven't will soon receive a notice with all the details but here's the basic way it's going to work. and we'll need to hear from all of you. When you email please send your email to kevin@angelnetworkz.net (only reponses to our email, he cannot help with anything else you may have trouble with). Also remember to include your IP address. Texas - Options are as follows Clients who want to stay (will require one months payment, don't send money yet) with us can stay. Those who wish to switch to TMS directly will be allowed to do so. Those who have cancelled, well those servers will be gone California (managed) Same deal, you want to stay, one months payment will be required for each of your servers, do not send money yet) A special account via managed.com is being set up for this and you can pay there and managed will put the servers up as your payments come in. Those who want to switch to managed.com directly, let us know your IP's etc again and we'll instruct managed that you are to transfer the server to you. Cancellations, same thing, will be gone. Please keep your replies to your IP's and decisions, do not ask questions in the email as Kevin cannot and will not answer them, his job is to compile the list so we can have things taken care of accordingly. http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1039
Posted by BigBison, 09-02-2004, 01:50 AM

Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 01:55 AM
To keep your server, you have to pay another month regardless of your payment status... another $80 on top of the $240 I'm already paid into the future. Yay.
Posted by mrl14, 09-02-2004, 02:04 AM
LOL they expect us to pay for another month even when our servers expire several months from now? Yeah right...that's the funniest thing I've ever heard
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 02:31 AM
I e-mailed the address and asked to be switched directly to Managed. I'll pay them for the server. Heck, if they only ask for the $60/mo a cel 2.4 sells for there, I'd keep it as a backup server. But I won't send more money to an ANz box while they haven't delivered the services I've already paid for.
Posted by above, 09-02-2004, 02:35 AM
DId anyone get an email yet? I havnt
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 02:36 AM
The last mail from AngelNetworkz to clients was August 16th. I've received nothing since.
Posted by cooldude919, 09-02-2004, 02:37 AM
i sent an email to kevin asking to be switched directly to TMS
Posted by sprintserve, 09-02-2004, 02:54 AM
I suggest you guys not to pay any money to accounts controlled by AN.
Posted by westcan, 09-02-2004, 03:04 AM
Here's my question. If the bills have been indeed piling up since June, then what happened to all the money that was prepaid? I mean tons of people paid 6 months in advance.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 03:10 AM
I doubt we'll ever know. I hope they get the transfer releases to Managed tomorrow morning so that they can start turning servers back on.
Posted by lanesharon, 09-02-2004, 03:11 AM
Sorry, duplicate post. Last edited by lanesharon; 09-02-2004 at 03:21 AM.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 03:15 AM
Yeah, that's on the page back. I asked to be switched to Managed directly.
Posted by lanesharon, 09-02-2004, 03:19 AM
At least a dozen of you have offered free service to me for my Rare Adult and Pediatric Cancer Website. I want to say thank you to all of you for those offers. It was incredible. I have to decline your offers, but I do appreciate them. I need to remain self-supporting of my website. If I do not, then I am constantly at the mercy of another company. I did that once, and it was not a good experience. If any of you have a reasonably priced package that would fit my needs, please PM me. Here are the parameters that are important to me: 1) 2+ days down is not acceptable to me. Sorry, but I think that a service should have a backup/contingency plan to get their customers back online. 2) I need multiple domains and subdomains, 400MB space (upgradeable to a larger plan if necessary) 10GB bandwidth, multiple MySQL databases, multiple email accounts, preferably CPanel and stat reporting of some type . 3) A grownup business professional at the helm of the company. No more kids, please..... Thanks again for all of your very gracious offers.
Posted by volmasoft, 09-02-2004, 03:46 AM
Lanesharon I have contacted you about your post. Back to angelnetworkz, an update has been released. They are expecting every customer who wants to keep their server or wan'ts to get a backup (needing their server back online) to pay for 1 month. This means that every customer that has pre-paid for 6 months or wot ever has lost their payments. They're forcing people to pay and I think this is wrong. Official post: http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index...=0&#entry14810 I think they are in money problems majorly and just need one month payment to start again and cancel out all their payment problems from their last servers. What's your views. Nathaniel Freeman
Posted by Shin Asuka, 09-02-2004, 04:02 AM
I paid in advance with AN to get their BOGO (Buy One Get One FREE) offer. But now with the situation they're in, I heard that they're suspending the BOGO offer. So that's mean I didn't get my free months?? Is this true? Can someone clarify this? Thanks.
Posted by Yikes2000, 09-02-2004, 04:07 AM
You don't get your free months. Any money you already paid is also gone (lost). They are now asking you to send more money to bring your server back. Read other thread here about Angel Networkz.
Posted by gprime, 09-02-2004, 04:18 AM
Who do we send a payment to, AN or Managed/TMS ? If we choose to migrate and they still ask us to pay THEM to get our servers reactivated, then they've gotta be joking ..
Posted by slayn, 09-02-2004, 04:19 AM
I always thought that the servers was theirs though? At least thats what they told me... So how can they just give it to them?
Posted by lifeinpoetry, 09-02-2004, 04:21 AM
I thought when they handed us over to Managed (the only logical choice) we have to pay Manged, not ANz.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 04:22 AM
That was probably a lie. From the sounds of their post, Managed will be providing a payment method for AN customers as I doubt they're able to keep their PayPal account open and unlocked. I don't know how the Texas servers will work out.
Posted by optimumd, 09-02-2004, 04:26 AM
According to them they also had their own staff at the datacenter.. Much of what they said about themselves clearly were not true.
Posted by optimumd, 09-02-2004, 04:28 AM
They also said they could buy Managed.Com if they ever wanted to.......
Posted by slayn, 09-02-2004, 04:30 AM
Btw this was posted on angelnetworkz forums.. but was deleted shortly after.. wish I knew about this before... http://216.239.39.104/search?q=cache...ic/4382-1.html
Posted by Shin Asuka, 09-02-2004, 04:31 AM
So what you're saying is true?
Posted by optimumd, 09-02-2004, 04:33 AM
"Correct, as I said, transition phase. From Managed.com to both and eventually to SoftwareWorks. Point blank is Jacques will be more involved with the software end of things while Steve will take over more responsibility for running Managed.com. There is no impending move to florida, hell I'll buy the place before that happens lol. " http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...m&pagenumber=2 Care to guess who said that in March?
Posted by gprime, 09-02-2004, 04:33 AM
I prepaid a lot of months. My current PayPal account balance is $2 and I only got paid today. I'll have to a) wait for check to cash b) wait for my CDN funds from my checking account to be transferred to my PayPal account. Boy.. Sure hope TMS has patience for my payment or I'm screwed.
Posted by Shin Asuka, 09-02-2004, 04:35 AM
gprime, do you get refunds for your prepaids?
Posted by gprime, 09-02-2004, 04:37 AM
No, that's what stinks. At least it was only 2 months more for each of my servers (= 4 months). I know its hundreds of dollars, but some people are out thousands, and boy, I feel sorry for them for prepaying for an entire year.
Posted by Shin Asuka, 09-02-2004, 04:44 AM
reallly????? Does this also mean that AN is closing down??
Posted by gprime, 09-02-2004, 04:47 AM
They are still continuing to resell servers from TMS. EDIT: Now that I read it over again, they may still be offering managed.com servers, but you pay managed.com directly.. hrm.. that doesn't quite make sense. Does anyone know how this works? Last edited by gprime; 09-02-2004 at 04:50 AM.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 04:54 AM
If the arrangement is really set, and they get the requests for transfer/release and IPs off to Managed, we'll know what's up with who gets paid for what tomorrow. Time to grab a few hours of sleep before I need to be up again.
Posted by poolking, 09-02-2004, 05:20 AM
If that is true I don't see how ANz can offer managed.com servers when you would be paying managed.com direct? That would then make your contract direct with managed.com. I doubt Angel can offer anything that you are not paying them for. It'd be like taking your meal out of burger king, going to mcdonalds and paying them money for it, what benefit would that be to Burger King? Last edited by poolking; 09-02-2004 at 05:24 AM.
Posted by volmasoft, 09-02-2004, 05:21 AM
Don't pay angelnetworkz a penny in my mind. It seems as if they want you to pay for a month to get your server up then continue to pay monthly. Where did the rest of the money that was paid go? I'm guessing into their back pockets by trying to pay people when they don't have the funds to. Any other opinons?
Posted by Alan @ CIT, 09-02-2004, 07:13 AM
I'm amazed that AN seem to have just written off the money they where paid for servers in advanced. If I where an AngelNetworkz customer who had paid (for example) 6 months in advance, the questions my solicitor would be asking Donna & Co would be: 1) What happened to the money paid for future services? 2) Why wern't the customers informed of this impending shutdown? It's hard to believe that Angelnetworkz didn't get any reminders of any sort from Managed.com before all the servers got shut down. From my un-biased opinion (I'm not an AngelNetworkz customer, or have any particular feelings about AN or Managed.com), Donna and her senior managment clearly don't have a clue about running a company. From what I read (they may not be true obviously), they didn't seem to have any sort of accounting system in place. I've read frequent quotes from Donna about having to search through Paypal records to see if a customer had paid. How did they expect to run a company of their size without even a basic CRM/Account system that showed who had paid, and for how long? My personal opinion on the matter is that AngelNetworkz should be forced into bankruptcy, and investigated for fraud and/or incompitance. Class action law-suit waiting to happen... Disclaimer: The above is my personal opinion, and should only be taken as that - an opinion :-) Thanks, Alan.
Posted by Knuttz, 09-02-2004, 08:07 AM
At this point is a matter of decision, I've made the decision to be switched to Managed.com's directly, latter on I will decide about where I am gonna stay, if it will be with Managed, or another provider (reseller no more).
Posted by samcohen, 09-02-2004, 09:34 AM
I think what's going on is obvious The money is going to be paid directly to managed.com -- it says so in AN's email. AN probably owes managed.com tons of money and the only way that managed.com agreed to turn over the data is to be paid directly to power up the servers. AN probably doesn't have the money -- or won't come up with the money -- so this is the arrangement they made so that managed.com will be compensated. At lest that's what it seems like to me.
Posted by lanesharon, 09-02-2004, 09:49 AM
This was also posted last night on the AN forums: Posting threads in most forums is now turned off. New posts made off topic in remaning threads will result in thread deletion. If the BS, slams, threats, lies, and abuse in general continue these forums will be turned off till those of you doing these things grow up a little. -------------------- Rachel Marsden Angel Networkz I realized there was a lot of kiddie stuff going on there yesterday, but I have to point out one thing that is glaring at me this morning. The post, from Rachel, put into clear detail what has to be done to get your servers back on line. But, I did not hear one apology. Not one oops, nothing. It may be that they have to do that for legal liablility. But, there also wasn't one thanks for the business and for helping us out in the past. The statement about paying Angel in Rachel's post last night was: Clients who want to stay (will require one months payment, don't send money yet) with us can stay. I am sure the 'don't send money yet' aspect of that post is because of the lack of a PayPal account. Let me say this really clearly - If anyone here is stupid enough to pay AN directly, you deserve to be scammed again. If you want you data, pay managed.com directly.
Posted by hostbox, 09-02-2004, 09:59 AM
I won't pay for Extorsion! Even if I want my data so bad, I preffer to pay Managed and that's in the works.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 10:47 AM
Has anyone paid Managed yet, and what was the result?
Posted by lanesharon, 09-02-2004, 11:03 AM
I have spent a great deal of the time in reflection over these last two days. I looked over the last month of AN activity, and when I did so with a clear mind, I saw red flags going up left and right. I had to take an honest look at why I ignored those red flags and did not run, quickly. Today, I am trying to summarize those activities and etch them in my brain so I do not make the same mistakes again. If each one of us takes an honest look at what has happened, we will see points where we made incorrect business decisions and stayed with a sinking ship. Don't ignore them. Remember them, or you are bound to make the same mistakes again. Good luck to each of you in the restoration of your data. I know that many of you have lost monies and your business reputations have been greatly affected. I pray that you each find restoration of those things also.
Posted by stevenhanna6, 09-02-2004, 11:05 AM
I would also like to know this, has anyone thought of paying managed then doing a paypal reversal after they have their data? would it work? or paying them with a CC if possible then doing a chargeback?
Posted by angst7, 09-02-2004, 11:13 AM
Thats unethical, and illegal. Whatever else happened, you dont fix situations by what amounts to theft. Managed is under no obligation to turn the boxes on. They could show a heck of alot of good faith by doing it, but thats not their way of doing business. So be it. (Of course in this situation what ANz is doing amounts to extortion. Don't we live in a wonderful world?)
Posted by stevenhanna6, 09-02-2004, 11:22 AM
I'm just saying what other people are probably thinking, I personally do not want to pay $100 to get my data(I have already ordered a new server with someone else). I wish managed had come up with another solution where they would turn the server on for ONE day if we paypal them $20.
Posted by eXcept, 09-02-2004, 11:49 AM
this all situation is just ridiculous, i've already paid for the server, and i have to pay to get my data back, even if i do not want to stay with ANz? They call this a solution? It can't be. I can't afford to pay for that, as i paid to ANz 31st August, and i refunded some clients of me in more than 100 dollars yesterday.
Posted by TMX, 09-02-2004, 11:51 AM
What managed is doing is neither unethical nor illegal. What you're proposing is both. -Bob
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 11:51 AM
I did, and now they post on their forums that we should not pay... This is totall bullsh|t! First they say pay and server will be back online, then they say WOAH! Don't pay! What the hell is going on over there? I paid $90 for a $60 server.... and they are not doing anything. Server is still unplugged.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 11:53 AM
What do you mean they posted we should not pay? I have all the forums open but haven't seen that.
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 11:55 AM
http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1039 We've emailed some and the answers have been encouraging. However we put further emails on hold as there is apparently an alteration to the agreement struck last night, we don't yet know what that is so emailing has been put on hold while we await to find out what that is. Also, those who placed paypal disputes need to cancel them so we can refund the money ourselves. We cannot use the account while the disputes are open, not even to refund your payments. Please cancel them and work with us directly to obtain your refund. As long as the paypal disputes are there we can't do anything with the money in it. More info will be posted as I have it. Ok sorry for delays for forum updates, those of you who haven't will soon receive a notice with all the details but here's the basic way it's going to work. and we'll need to hear from all of you. When you email please send your email to kevin@angelnetworkz.net (only reponses to our email, he cannot help with anything else you may have trouble with). Also remember to include your IP address. Texas - Options are as follows Clients who want to stay (will require one months payment, don't send money yet) with us can stay.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 11:56 AM
That was posted hours before the mails were sent out with the paypal address to pay, hence the "don't send money yet" or people would've sent it to the incorrect address (billing@angelnetworkz.net).
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 11:56 AM
I would like to note that it is going on 3 weeks and Kevin will still not answer his phone. I can't post on the AN board anymore, it just wont let me... oh well. I have no idea what the hell is going to happen. Oh, well when you look at it that way we arn't so bad...
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 11:58 AM
Who knows. I am trusting that since this paypal account is owned by Managed that they will do right by the payments. I sent mine an hour ago and the server is still down. I have a shell script ready to paste to mysqldump all my databases and get em on another server fast.
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 12:01 PM
Man what a mess. :-( I am just going to hope... but I am not holding my breath.
Posted by Knuttz, 09-02-2004, 12:14 PM
Dan, please, let us know when your server get back online, will you? My best regards
Posted by above, 09-02-2004, 12:34 PM
I have paid managed as well, and asked to be switched to managed. Ill let you know what happens
Posted by Dave W, 09-02-2004, 12:48 PM
Well this has been a very very long read. First off AN seems to be willing to do the right thing "when they are able to" but They should have warned their customers weeks ago in order to ensure all their customers made good backups. secondly, what the hell are all theese people doing running webhosting companies without a backup solution in place?!?!?! Is it just me? There are so many posts here about peoples lost data but if you are a proper webhost you have backups and maybe even backups of the backups. Heck 99% of my customers have their own backups! Last edited by Dave W; 09-02-2004 at 12:52 PM.
Posted by lanesharon, 09-02-2004, 12:49 PM
Anyone near: Managed Solutions Group, Inc. 46750 Fremont Blvd. #107 Fremont, CA 94538 It is off the 880, near the Mission Peak Regional Park area, north of San Jose. It might be worth a try, as Sam said yesterday, to have someone walk into their offices and ask these questions. Keep in mind, if you were on a shared server, Managed.com may have to wait for all accounts on that server to pay in order to plug it in. And maybe they are being smart and waiting for the payments to clear. Last edited by lanesharon; 09-02-2004 at 12:53 PM.
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 12:59 PM
Something tells me they wouldn't do anything even if you walked in there with a swat team. Just the same I paid and I still see no server. Figures.
Posted by Coolraul, 09-02-2004, 01:01 PM
I can't believe managed.com is being blamed here for anything. They aren't being shady or deceptive. Ok if you are a webhoster and a client owes you money and they dont pay, don't you suspend them? And if they say turn me back on to get my data what do you do? I am actually quite curious about that last question. Do you simply say o ok here get your data and go? Or do you keep the site down for a reasonable period since its your only leverage for them to pay. I think the domain you can't hold but the site you should be able to keep down for a short reasonable period.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 01:05 PM
I don't think anyone's blamed managed.com in a few days. I mailed billing@managed.com regarding when these servers should go on, no response.
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 01:10 PM
good to be back! Had to remember my password and change my email addy!! I paid the amount to managed. The paypal address ends in managed.com, so it cant be hellsangels, right?
Posted by lanesharon, 09-02-2004, 01:14 PM
Try this. Call Managed.com FIRST, before sending a payment. Ask them how long you will have to wait to have your server plugged in, if you pay by: Credit Card Pay Pal Bank Check Bank Transfer Wire Transfer Tell them that you need a firm committment.
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 01:16 PM
many of us are desperate. I tried conatcing managed, they say 'soon' as in it will be solved soon with AN. My 'feeling' is those that paid to the managed paypal addy will get their servers up within the next 24 hours. After all, since we paid to managed directly, they wouldnt want to risk their rep. right, errrr?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 01:19 PM
I'm betting on it. The sooner they start putting servers up the less risky accepting payments from AN customers becomes. If they wait too long people will start complaining to PayPal.
Posted by InfluxHost, 09-02-2004, 01:25 PM
I was getting ready to buy a server @ tomsyer.net Is it really a bad idea to go with resellers? :-/
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 01:26 PM
Who knows. For now I am done with resellers.... :-(
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 01:28 PM
try beachcomber, they seem reliable I should have my server there soon...
Posted by twastudios, 09-02-2004, 01:28 PM
I thought those of you following this would find this interesting. I wrote John LaGapia, the name of the person on the paypal account for Angel Networkz. I asked him what his affiliation with Angel Networkz was. This is his response. "The person running the company is sharing my PayPal account (and I've told her countless times to get her own as I would like mine back). Other than that, I have no affiliation." Why on earth would a legit company "share" someone elses paypal account? I'll tell you why, becuase they were doing their best to hide the truth as anyone knows your address and other company information has to be in your paypal account. Gees. What a scam.
Posted by hostbox, 09-02-2004, 01:32 PM
I can't decide whether or not continue with this crap paying them again or just forget about my data since 2003
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 01:33 PM
this must be the world record in disasters. You have to admit. If they can con us that well, they deserve some credit. guiness record! I mean, come on! either we are extremely stupid, OR, they are extremely smart... Now, I hope the 'new' payment we made to the managed.com address isnt also somehow owned by them. That would mean an Olympic gold medal...
Posted by hostbox, 09-02-2004, 01:36 PM
I'm wating to know if "someone" have gotten his server Reactivatdd
Posted by Intersabre, 09-02-2004, 01:39 PM
Do you think this is related with waiting for Kevin to send the list?
Posted by hostbox, 09-02-2004, 01:43 PM
I'm not sure... I emailed managed, and they haven't replied since 10AM when I sent it, I sent them: Let's see "when" they reply and MSG, Inc if you are reading this please PM me it would help. Thank you.
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 01:45 PM
managed is not repsponsible. They dont have to do anything. YET... there rep is at stake, and If they showed good will, even for 24 hours and less get out, it would let them look like heroes. all other issues aside, this is the truth. Of course AN is to blame, but they could have shown the way and be 'superior'... Now, let us hope those of us that paid managed, that we will at some point get our servers back.
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 01:48 PM
Kevin still won't answer his phone :/
Posted by lanesharon, 09-02-2004, 02:02 PM
If I let my anger consume me, then I have a choice - do something about it or let it go. AngelNetworkz employess have clearly shown a desire to defraud customers. They did it with their old company xAnglex and they have done it here. It the Canadian authorities are given enough complaints about this matter, they will at least, call these people in and question them and take a serious look at their financial accounts. To report a fraud that was committed in Canada (this one was), to the authorities, phone 1-888-495-8501 If you do not want to do that, or take some method of legal recourse, then you need to just move forward.
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 02:07 PM
at this time we need our servers and data back lane. everything in its good time.
Posted by samcohen, 09-02-2004, 02:13 PM
The last post from an AN empoyee (rachel) on their forums -- http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index...15&#entry16449 From Rachel We're doing our best to keep track of things, keep in mind these our our prices being charged, which means after managed takes their cut of the server cost there will be money left over, atm it will be used to cover special circumstances like Ilimitted that just paid recently. Some will also be used for refunds. No more emails are likely to get responses. Kevin is asleep and will send the list to managed in a few hours (they will see some on their own by checking the account). Tara went home hours ago as did Sarah, Samantha wasn't even in today after working double shifts most of the week. Rest of the staff is pretty much off as well atm unless they log on by their own choosing (such as Brandon etc). Donna is fast asleep, having spent most of the last few days (against doctors orders) emailing people and spending way to much time online I sent her to bed and finished the last few batches of emails myself. Now I'm also off to sleep. I'd intended to take the forums offline due to some of the childesh remarks posted here but lo and behold IPB is so messed up the off switch doesn't even work. Going to have Jan restore mod privs for now and then I'm going to sleep as it's after 6 AM already and we all need our sleep to get up in a couple hours and start processing your answers and making the lists. For those wondering "when to pay". It says in the email... the sooner you send in your payment the sooner your server comes back online (if it's offline). http://angelnetworkz.net/forum/index...ult_type=posts
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 02:14 PM
From the AN forum:
Posted by samcohen, 09-02-2004, 02:16 PM
My opinion, thus far, is that this is not a criminal enterprise. If so they would probably have established false identities and they would have skipped town as soon as manged.com pulled the plug. The fact that they stuck around to work it out tells me it's more incompetence than anything else. I could be wrong though, they could just be covering their asses, to prevent crimianl prosecution by showing a good faith effort to resolve the situation.
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 02:16 PM
Jack Peterson is the head of that dept, so if that is valid than we may actually see something. As for everyone else here, can we stop bashing AN? I see people calling them everything under the sun, I know hope looks like it is lost, but they have done nothing wrong to be called all these names. When you email dell, or gateway and they do not reply do you post on forums that they are a fraud? I am starting to question this.... I mean, sure things are a bit rough but I don't know if we should be calling them all these names.
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 02:18 PM
ok!!!!! thats a good sign, man, thats a PLUS that this forum exists. Who owns this forum? They are getting flowers or chocolates from me!!!
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 02:20 PM
iNet does (http://www.inetinteractive.com) But I will take some Chocolate, pm me for mailing details.
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 02:23 PM
right............. lol seriously, who owns this forum?
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 02:24 PM
Really... they own the forum.
Posted by dnseeker, 09-02-2004, 03:02 PM
interesting... managed servers arent up yet (AN leased ones). would they also stake they reputation?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 04:11 PM
Have to wonder if Kevin is getting the list of people that want to switch and their IPs to Managed. Without those releases from AN they won't turn on servers.
Posted by Intersabre, 09-02-2004, 04:53 PM
Rachel on AN's forums: Servers are already going back online, some are already up. Those with refunds coming will get them. We have no intentions of not paying back money due to clients, everyone will get their refunds.
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 04:56 PM
Has anyone got any reports of their servers back online? --> Is anyone staying with them?
Posted by Knuttz, 09-02-2004, 05:01 PM
Satan is a fallen Angel... would you stay anywhere near him?? I won't.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 05:05 PM
I am a customer, I paid Managed.com at about 11AM EST, and my server is not up. Rachel says they're coming up but nobody's reported that happening yet. I'm staring at my screen of endless failed pings.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 05:12 PM
I just received a Word document amounting to a new contract with Managed. It has to be sent back to activate the new server. Hopefully net2fax will work this time (it works about 50% of the time but it's the only internet fax service I know how to use). For those not receiving it yet, it also says that if your monthly payment to AN was less than the cost of the server on managed.com's homepage, you have to pay the greater of the two. It also says only after this customer release from AN *AND* AN's release of the customer (what we've been mailing to Kevin) are received will the server be reactivated.
Posted by above, 09-02-2004, 05:25 PM
update: I have just recieved an email from managed.com asking me to fill out a new agreement. MANAGED SOLUTIONS GROUP INC. 46750 FREMONT BLVD. #107 FRMONT, CA 94538 TEL: 888-585-8889 FAX: 510-580 Agreement to New Customers transferring to Managed.com To whom this may concern, Due to the unforeseen events that have developed recently between Managed.com and AngelNetworkz, Managed.com has come to a resolution for AN customers. This is an official agreement between Managed.com and you, the customer. This agreement entitles the customer to deal directly with Managed.com. You release full contracted rights with AngelNetworkz to directly deal with Managed.com. This agreement allows the customer to contract the said server for a period of at least ONE month. Please note this is a REACTIVATION of the server for a ONE month period. If you, the customer, decides to cancel services after the initial ONE month reactivation of the server, please do notify Managed.com of this preference. Now the COST OF THE REACTIVATION FEE for said server is the cost of the server as Managed.com has listed on our website. If payment is short of the price of server, we will ask customer to pay the difference be paid to: Angelnetworkz@managed.com for the reactivation of the server. Also, please comply with AngelNetworkz regarding their email of instructions . They will also need to release you from their records, before we can officially acquire you as a customer. Managed.com does not guarantee the data on the server. You, as the customer accept full responsibility and liability of the server. Signature X________________________________ Date________________________ Print Full Name_____________________________ E-mail:____________________________________ Server IP address:___________________________ Root Password:_____________________________
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 06:00 PM
Ok so, what the hell? I did not ask to get transferred, I just asked that I get my server back online and that I will stay with them - do I still need this silly thing?
Posted by above, 09-02-2004, 06:06 PM
I dont think so, But you still will have to pay again
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 06:08 PM
I already paid
Posted by cbianchi, 09-02-2004, 06:36 PM
Just my experience. I have paid as requested managed.com this morning, despite having paid one year in advance to Angel Networkz only three months ago. I sent an email to kevin@angelnetworkz.net as requested, as well as cc to managed.com No answer whatsoever. Not even the form from managed.com, shown above. I have been on the phone trying to contact managed.com all day. No answer. Just a prerecorder message stating their hours of business between 9 and 6 PST (I called between 9 and 4 PST and no answer). The server has been offline for 65 hours now. What kind of bandits are these? I am disgusted by the extremely unprefessional and fraudolent behaviour. Are all companies out there like this, run by kids in school? Cristiano
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 06:38 PM
First of all: Managed.com never answered the phone, I think they are still trying to figure out how to use it. Second: They say that managed.com is going to review all payments and setup the servers then.
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 06:47 PM
"Once our billing department has processed this payment, you will receive an agreement form that must be returned to us for server re-activation. Please return this and expect your server to be back online in about 24 hours due to the high volume of AN clients we must accomodate to. Thank you for your continued cooperation and patience! "
Posted by BigBison, 09-02-2004, 07:04 PM
Does this mean what I think it means, and if anyone involved thinks to ask this question first, I'd recommend getting a clear answer before signing anything. The deal put forth earlier stated payment of one month's service, not the price of the server, did it not?
Posted by nybble, 09-02-2004, 07:08 PM
What they mean if you pay the monthly fee set in place by Angelnetworkz.
Posted by cloudrck, 09-02-2004, 07:25 PM
Never thought of it that way, but I don't see it as criminal intent, but I'm no expert, as the fact is AN is working with Managed.com to try to dig themselves out of a ditch. heh, i guess you're stuck between a hard place & a rock, as neither companies are 'the best' at what they are doing.
Posted by BigBison, 09-02-2004, 07:39 PM
What they've said is hardly clear. I know you want your server back on, but the statement I highlighted is ambiguous at best. Do you even know who's name is on the PayPal account this time?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 07:46 PM
The PayPal account is in the name of Managed Solutions Group Inc. and is on the managed.com domain.
Posted by BigBison, 09-02-2004, 07:53 PM
So, if you've already paid for this month to AN, and are now paying Managed, you're required to cover the difference before the server is turned on. OK.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 07:56 PM
No no. Managed doesn't care what you've paid AN at all. The 'difference' they want is if your monthly cost to AN is less than the fee listed on the managed.com homepage for that server configuration. Since AN told us to pay our monthly fee to the managed.com paypal address, the Managed mail is saying that if you paid less than Managed charges for that server, you will be asked for that difference before the server is activated.
Posted by Knuttz, 09-02-2004, 08:04 PM
Probably they do not have intercons, they have drums... LOL
Posted by Death Reaper, 09-02-2004, 09:07 PM
Ok, but they say here: That leads me to believe that it is only the cost of the server as THEY state it, and not what you paid with ANz. So which is right? It is confusing at best.. Regards,
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-02-2004, 09:41 PM
What's right is what Managed says. If you were paying AN less than Managed charges for that server, you're going to be paying Managed's price not what you paid with AN.
Posted by sightz, 09-02-2004, 10:43 PM
Been reading this thread with interest. Partly to see what kind of people would risk their businesses at AN after last year's "Burst shut us down, we don't know why, boo hoo hoo, someone is on holidays and can't be reached" fiasco, and partly just to see how it works out when a host gets waaaaaay overextended and crashes/burns. Managed.com is being very cool about this. Working out a way for AN customers to become Managed.com customers is the ideal solution! I am totally and utterly shocked that some posters here want to stay at AN. What are you thinking? Have you enjoyed the last few days? I have great respect for Managed for initially saying they would not touch their resellers customers with a 10 foot pole. It is the only way to run a datacentre. Although painful for AN's customers, Managed was doing the right thing. Working out a mutual way that they can, with permission, deal directly with AN's customers is groundbreaking. Other datacentres should be watching this one closely and adopt Managed.com's solution into their TOS is it works out. I wish all you AN victims the best of luck, and publically applaud Managed for doing the right thing! Many large DC's might have hidden behind their legal terms and simply wiped your data once the reseller they deal with had gone bust. Managed is breaking new ground here and I wish them well. It is a daring and innovative step. Good luck all!
Posted by lanesharon, 09-02-2004, 10:55 PM
I have to add a resounding 'ditto' to that last post. I think that managed.com upheld their contractual agreement with Angel. The relationship could have been ended a little sooner, for the financial sake of managed. But their business decsions are there own to make. I was impressed that they did what they had to do to legally keep themselves out of trouble, although they certainly had a lot of outside pressure weighing down on them. I have learned a number of good lessons from this experience. One of those lessons is that I do not understand, at all, the legality of our inability to get to data, that we thought we owned. That scares me and I would sure like to find out what precedences have already been fought out in a court of law. Hard lessons this week, but I can see now that I need to take a closer look at 'the plan'. Managed.com I applaud you for doing the right thing, even when it was extremely unpopular. You stuck to your contractual agreement. And you allowed us to get to our data when that contractual agreement was ended. And quite honestly, you kept your cool and negotiated with a client that had caused a great deal of chaos for your own business. Last edited by lanesharon; 09-02-2004 at 10:59 PM.
Posted by brianlouis, 09-03-2004, 12:42 AM
Guys, I've had enough with John(aka donna/rachel/kevin)(my speculation). Please learn from your mistake and becareful with sending money to them anymore. I am extremely devastated with them. They are not only the worst business person in the world but the worst human being I've ever seen. All those "I need to sleep now after 20 hours...Donna's father passed away...I'm sharing paypal account with donna...We need to suspend the forum due to childish posts in our forum...etc..." are all BS. Please guys, learn something from here. Never again trust any of those websites, especially those with only one owner. They can run away anytime they want with your money. I now truly understand, You get what you paid for. I have lost thousands of dollars because of them, my money paid to them, my data, my clients, time.... This is so devastating. We have fallen prey to one of the worst scams. I don't care about my data at the servers anymore. No point doiing it without knowing the outcome. I wish you guys all the best in your hosting business. Regards, Brian
Posted by thefast, 09-03-2004, 06:03 AM
I was reading some more postings of people in the AN forum who payed for the extra month and didn't hear anything anymore. It seems only one or a few servers are up (like Dan's). I think U better go for the safe side and file a complaint at paypal for ur last transaction. U could always drop the charge AFTER they setup ur server. This way ur sure u will get ur money back if it doens't happen. There has to be some money in the special ANGELNETWORKZ accounts on managed and TMS.
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-03-2004, 06:24 AM
2 things: A> it is illegal to perform an action such as that, and that will affect your paypal account. You need to allow ample time for individuals to perform service. As you are not a managed customer, but an AN customer, this will take time to do. 2 days is hardly that time. While I feel for everyone and the downtime ensued, it's completely unrealistic to blame managed for Donna's screwup here, or rather for your own. Had you done the homework, you would have seen that this A> has happened before and B> was coming again, very shortly this is why researching hosts BEFORE you purchase is so key, especially with servers. It's all documented, right here. B>Paypal does not cover "services" transactions and refunds. They will deny these each and every time. This is stated in their terms of service, which, if you'd read, you would know. Purchasing a server does not make it a non service transaction, it is still a service transaction. You may only chargeback items if they are physically shipped to you
Posted by sandanista, 09-03-2004, 06:29 AM
Is yours up now Dan? Our is anyones up for that matter?
Posted by incript_services, 09-03-2004, 06:36 AM
i still have doubts in that company and not yet paid them yet.I was just wondering how i can get my data back.But i dont want to spend a single penny in that biggest scams i had been in my life.
Posted by cbianchi, 09-03-2004, 06:52 AM
Just an update on how cool managed.com are. I paid the required fee at 8am GMT (28 hours ago) and sent the email to kevin asking to switch to managed. Kevin, probably, didn't release my server/agreement. Billing deparment from managed.com sent me an email with the agreement form (after me chasing them all day) at 12am GMT last night (16 hours after payment). I sent the signed agreement straight back. Nothing since. No more messages, acknoledgment of receipt: nothing. My email have been systematically ignored. Another 12 hours have passed, I have done everything in my power, and my server is still offline. It is not AN fault anymore, this is managed.com. I cannot believe it takes one day to switch a preconfigured server back on. Ms Mercer Donna, in her last email said "Sent the agreement back and the server will be up in 15 minutes". Yeah, right. So much for being cool and deserving an applause. Same sort of people, no wonder they did business together. You have never seen any diffamating messages from me, either here or on AN forums, as I know that they would not solve my problem. Which is to get the server back online. I have sone EVERYTHING I was requested to do, paid the extra money, sent everything back as requested immediately. My suggestion. Stau away from AN. But don't go anywhere near managed.com as well. Cristiano
Posted by poolking, 09-03-2004, 07:36 AM
Are you sure that nothing went wrong with the release of the server?
Posted by 3en, 09-03-2004, 07:51 AM
My server went online within mins of sending the agreement. Make sure you pay managed.com prices not AngelNetworkz.
Posted by cbianchi, 09-03-2004, 08:07 AM
I believe managed.com should tell me what the price is, but they didn't. In any case it would be a difference of $5. Also, if something went wrong with the server, how is it that they didn't contact me and are failing to respond to ANY message, sent to either sales, billing or support? Cristiano
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-03-2004, 08:08 AM
While managed and Angel aren't one business, they ARE like 2 peas in a pod, once they have your money, they don't care about much else. This has been a very well known issue with managed for some time, though. They have your money, they will get to it in their own sweet time, IF they get to it. I've seen some of their responses, trust me, you're better off staying FAR away from (un)managed.com
Posted by thefast, 09-03-2004, 09:27 AM
Don't understand why u say stuff like that ? Did u contacted Paypal about this ? Did u speak to them on the phone ? Well , we did. A - They promised a setup before a date in the letter. He payed and the setup isn't there. Seen the history with AN he can file a complaint. B - Paypal is indeed investigating these complaint and no matter what u say about these services in case of fraude they will take the buyers side. Paypal accepted even ALL complaints with older transactiondates than 30 days. So before u post things like that contact paypal.
Posted by thefast, 09-03-2004, 09:29 AM
What i don't understand is that the postings about servers being up only goes for 2 or 3 people ... Dan and 3en ... that is weird.
Posted by SLH, 09-03-2004, 10:23 AM
I think I will leave my dispute at PayPal open and steer clear of AN and managed. I wonder if this "Donna" person has her/his parents knowledge of all this going on...?
Posted by Project X, 09-03-2004, 11:08 AM
I WISH PEOPLE HERE WOULD STOP trying to convince others that they can NOT file a chargeback thru paypal. this has NOTHING to do with a good or a service. simply put, this is FRAUD and believe me, paypal will not hesitate to do something about it. i strongly encourage those of you who PLANNED to do a paypal chargeback to do so IMMEDIATELY. your time will be running out soon.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-03-2004, 11:12 AM
1. You're not following the thread, as he was advising someone against complaining against Managed.com after a single day. That's not giving them enough time to resolve the situation before complaining to PayPal. 2. PayPal has opened up to disputes on transactions over 30 days old for AngelNetworkz. I'll be contacting AN over the weekend and if I don't have a refund during the week next week, will dispute my last two payments (for August through November) through PayPal.
Posted by thefast, 09-03-2004, 11:17 AM
Dan, U forgot to mention there was a promise in server setup times and the fact not that many servers are up. Well, with AN's own site being down again things won't improve and i would advise everyone to think about filing a complaint before it's to late.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-03-2004, 11:19 AM
You have 29 more days to file a complaint against Managed. I like to give companies a chance to do right before going after the payments myself -- have you tried calling and asking for status or refund?
Posted by hostbox, 09-03-2004, 11:21 AM
Dan did they reinstalled your server? I haven't
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 11:57 AM
New managed.com work sheet: Phone support: 1:25PM to 1:30PM PST Billing Dept: When ever billy goes to bed Server Setup: Dependent on duct tape availability & School hours ----------------------- Is it just me or can we not get in contact with managed.com? It's like they are just turning off the phone. Are they even a real company? I mean, do they have an office or something? Or are they some type of mom & pop shop?
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-03-2004, 12:01 PM
investigating does NOT mean anything, ALL complaints are investigated. This doesn't mean you're going to get a refund by any means. It means they're "investigating", nothing more. Their policy does NOT cover refunds or anything of the like for non tangible items, period. Doubt me? Read their own help page, where you will see exactly what is covered under the BCP. Undoubtedly they will "investigate" the issues brought up against AN, as that is their job. However, they will not refund individuals outside of their policies as THAT is not their job. If you want full protection against something like this, use a real cc, or checking account, not paypal. As Dan said, it's been 24 hours, wooh, at least give them a few days before you run crying to paypal. The servers are gone, the data is gone, forget about it, it's wiped out. If you ARE lucky enough to ge your server back up and running, then good, but the fact that you had no backups is certainly not AN's fault. Would YOU want all of your customers doing fraudulent chargebacks on your service for 15 minutes of downtime? Managed has offered something to people here, something they're not legally required to do. You have the responsibility to take that offering responsibly and realize that they have probably hundreds of servers in the same position, all of which are probably not even labeled or organized properly, so they wil have to go hunting for each and every one of them, and they will have to make sure they ONLY turn the server on for the right people. It's certainly not an easy task to maintain, especially with all hundreds of those people launching fraudulent chargebacks and acting like children because their server isn't turned on immediately. Give it time, learn the value of patience. Managed doesn't HAVE to do a thing for you, they are being nice, and you should be THANKING them instead of kicking them.
Posted by Dark_Devil, 09-03-2004, 12:06 PM
I cant be arsed to read the other thread here with 36 pages can some1 tell me whats going on please ? i saw somethink about them owing 70k ? are they gonna pay it and get our servers back up ?
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 12:23 PM
Anyone have any word on when we might see our servers? edit Ok, maybe this is just me but can anyone get to http://www.angelnetworkz.net/forum/ ? /edit
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-03-2004, 12:25 PM
No, not loading for me either.
Posted by thefast, 09-03-2004, 12:44 PM
Can anyone confirm ? Maybe someone of TMS ?
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 01:01 PM
MY SERvER IS BACK ONLINE! YEAH!!!!!! W00T!!
Posted by incript_services, 09-03-2004, 02:36 PM
well nothing is going to happen.Everything seems to have gone.I am happy for people who are able to get their data back.
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 03:56 PM
Ok well if anyone noticed I got my server back. I paid what was requested to angelnetworkz@managed.com, then called and Sam was nice enough to help me on my way. I now have all my data and my server back - if only you guys would listen to what you are told. Thanks Sam!
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 04:32 PM
Someone asked me a few questions so I will answer them here: Q: Who is Sam? A: Sam is the person who picked up the phone at managed.com when I called. Q: Is your server on 205.209.143.* A: None of them are Q: Are you "nybbles"? A: My god I hope not! Who is he anyway? WHy is he using my name?
Posted by Samuel, 09-03-2004, 04:33 PM
Problem that you are forgetting is that they have been "Told" many many things, many of them turning out to be lies, half truths, and outright scams. That you would ignore this, that you would chastise the users here for not "listening" when they are doing their best in a crisis shows how whishy washy you actually are. Everyone that reads your post has bets on how long it will take you to come back here and complain about your new "arrangement".
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 04:36 PM
Well so far it is good.... I mean, I was losing hope for awhile there, but everything is back up and going again! This could have happened to any company, not just AN... so I will give them a chance. I saw someone say that he saw a bug walk across his desk, but he did no squish it. He figured everyone deserves a second chance, doesn't matter who they are or why, because **** happens if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Posted by thefast, 09-03-2004, 04:44 PM
What is ur main site on the 'up' server ?
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 04:46 PM
My sites are no longer on that server, I moved them to another company for the timebeing till all the **** falls off the fan.
Posted by thefast, 09-03-2004, 05:02 PM
And a site on a IP adress ?
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 05:05 PM
I try to keep my site(s) away from WHT for private reasons. I come here on a personal note, not business note so I see no need to include business stuff here. Needless to say the server I paid for is up, the one I didn't is still down.
Posted by thefast, 09-03-2004, 05:20 PM
Can ANYONE post me an URL or IP of a server that came up on managed that was from AN ?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-03-2004, 05:24 PM
65.75.129.50
Posted by Webdiggity, 09-03-2004, 05:31 PM
205.209.141.50
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 05:53 PM
No we just like to lie to you and tell you things that arn't true. Anyway, I am not sure what is going on with AN, I just paid and yet they say they are still going to give me another 8 months.... Any truth to this?
Posted by jmcgon, 09-03-2004, 06:45 PM
can you ping other servers in the same address range on your box that arent visible online? If thats the case I will pay one of you to let me transfer data off my box and cancel the managed payments.
Posted by slayn, 09-03-2004, 07:12 PM
Did anyone notice anything particular with the agreement for staying with AN? The reason I choose to stay with AN was that it didnt matter who I stayed with because after a month I was done. I was hoping that by staying with AN I might not have to pay for cpanel again and that I might actually see couple more months of service that I actually paid for ( would use it to just host some files) but anyway.. for those staying with AN it shows ...cost of the server as Managed.com has listed on our website plus any backlogged fees... WTF??!?! backlogged fees??? I just got this server in July, so there shouldn't be any backlog fees for me.. but what about others that have been with AN for a while?... :/
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 08:40 PM
I didnt pay any "backlogged" fees.
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-03-2004, 09:53 PM
and I've got a bridge in the middle of the Sahara that I'll sell to you. Of course, you can't see it, but just trust me, it's there! After all of this, WHY would you even accept "another 8 months" of hosting from a provider who has clearly no method of keeping themselves afloat.
Posted by Project X, 09-03-2004, 10:11 PM
i talked to paypal on the phone about this on friday. it is easily documented that angel knew months ago that they were in serious arrears and that they were taking money fruadulently and knew that soon enough the clients they stole money from would be getting nothing in return for it. paypal is well aware of this case and the threads here. paypal will more than likely be working with law enforcement on this case. say as you wish but this is fraud. as with any fraud case the law allows certain remedies and even paypal wont ignore that because first and formost paypal doesnt want to be sued and lose customers over this. if you dont believe me, feel free to call them yourself and speak with the fraud people on tuesday.
Posted by jheslop1, 09-03-2004, 10:19 PM
So they took my money fraudulenty 2 months ago?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-03-2004, 10:19 PM
So, anyone have any idea what's gonna happen with the now expired cPanel licenses? I'm now a Managed customer but the small agreement signed doesn't cover what services they will provide other than 'reactivating' the server. What I'm paying for the server is what it would cost to buy from Managed -with- cPanel ($20 more than their homepage price for the configuration). I'll send an e-mail off later, wondering if anyone's already asked?
Posted by bilalk, 09-03-2004, 10:33 PM
I truly feel bad about smirking right now... I actually used to play a game called Shattered Galaxy (really great and *free* game), that Donna also spent time in before she started AN. If you'd like to take a look at some Donna 'history', try these links (forum registration required!): http://www.psgx.net/index.php?showtopic=3840 http://www.psgx.net/index.php?showtopic=3817 Keep in mind that as it *is* a gaming forum, random comments are expected . And you can verify that it is the same Donna, since she makes references to xAngelx (the original name of AngelNetworkz). The basic story I've gathered from my time while frequenting forums and IRC channels that she has been in is this: According to Donna... She is a divorced lesbian (age ~30) living in Canada with a sister that is a splitting image of Elisha Cuthbert. She has flown US, Canadian and Australian fighter planes and helicopters (specifically mentioning F-11's, F-18's, Tigers and Apaches), fought in the Iraqi war, is one of less than a dozen people in the world licensed to fly a certain helicopter (or it could be a plane, I'm not sure). She has been in the Australian air force and special air services, with her helicopter license coming from an exchange with the US. She also got a University degree in less than 2 years and then worked on extremely important research projects for IBM with powerful supercomputers. Sometime during that, she also found time to teach at the UT law school (fairly prestigious college). I also have IRC chat logs with similar claims. I think the guy who posted something about a "pathological liar" had it right on the money =).
Posted by nybble, 09-03-2004, 11:18 PM
Dan, I am. For now I just used the "15 day trial" that cpanel is giving out.
Posted by Lancia, 09-03-2004, 11:38 PM
I would like to add that, for the record, after sending payment to angelnetworkz@managed.com and emailing the signed contract to billing@managed.com late last night, my server did come back online about 5:00 PM today.
Posted by Paul, 09-03-2004, 11:52 PM
www.cpanel.net They offer 15 trials and 3 day emergencys licenses
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-03-2004, 11:57 PM
I don't need an emergency license, there are no sites still on the server, but if nobody is going to be reactivating this license I'm not paying $80/mo for Managed's $60/mo server.
Posted by thefast, 09-04-2004, 02:52 AM
My bet is u have to pay again ... the neverending story. Another tought ... Is AN and managed connected in any way with each other ?
Posted by incript_services, 09-04-2004, 03:26 AM
well as far as i think first you have to pay off the margin of prices between both companies.Then you will have to pay for cpanel licenses if you going to continue with them.So i agree its never ending story with them.
Posted by lyew, 09-04-2004, 05:20 AM
Hi I sent a message to Kevin on Wednesday indicating that I'd like to stay with AN (at least for the next month), paid the paypal account (angelnetworkz@managed.com) as instructed early Thursday morning. but haven't got my server back up and running yet. Does anyone know the name of the person I should contact at managed to chase things up?
Posted by thefast, 09-04-2004, 06:38 AM
Anyone tried ordering a new server at AN ? I want to know their new paypal adress :p
Posted by thefast, 09-04-2004, 06:39 AM
I think with the long weekend it will be tuesday.
Posted by incript_services, 09-04-2004, 03:54 PM
well i just tried so lets wait to hear from them.
Posted by beam04, 09-05-2004, 12:15 AM
PayPal keeps giving me this BS that they can't do anything because it was a service purchased. I keep telling them that people have had disputes opened and they're telling me this is false. Should I skip PP and just speak with my credit card company?
Posted by mattwade, 09-05-2004, 12:20 AM
If you aren't getting satisfaction through PayPal, then yes you should go to your CC company. Realize however that if you dispute a transaction with your CC company, paypal may not want to deal with you any more. I am just speculating on this, but it would make sense.
Posted by TimBraz, 09-05-2004, 12:32 AM
Yeah I paid Thursday as well and still down.. paypal'd the cash to them.. you would think they would have one or two people stick around to verify and plug us back in. I guess an emergency on our part, does not make one on theres.. I had the same thing happen with another hosting company awhile back.. The data centers should take the time to email everyone and let them get the data off or a chance the pay for the month before they shut the servers down. Kinda wrong to be down a week when you are prepaid. Just wish I would have had some kind of warning about this.
Posted by Slacker, 09-05-2004, 03:23 AM
Well, I got the bizarrely worded email from "Rachel" last week, saying something about paying for a month if I wanted to stay with them. I hadn't had any issues with my site, so I hadn't been by their forums for a while, which I then saw had turned into a mighty river of flame. I emailed Kevin and told him that I had paid through April of next year already. I asked him if I could be confident that my site was going to stay online. He said, "Yes, you can." Tonight, there it goes. It's been down for about an hour so far. Just for grins I submitted a support ticket with AN. I thought my server was at The Planet here in Dallas, TX so I thought I'd press my luck and see if the person at their critical support number would tell me what was going on and maybe help a brother out. He said my IP address (209.120.238.110) wasn't one of theirs. I said: What the hell is this? Of course, I can't do a lookup on my own IP, so I tried 209.120.238.1, which resolves to a company called Speedhost.com. Is there where my server is? Anyone got a line on that? Anyway, overall I'm wavering between freaked and pissed. My site isn't a business or anything, but it's a fairly active community forum type thing. Any prolonged downtime will surely cost me some membership. I guess tomorrow I'll be setting up a server somewhere else and uploading the backup I made late last week to them. Dammit.
Posted by P-nut, 09-05-2004, 07:34 AM
Slacker, try contacting JoseQ at Tailored Made Servers. All of AN's TX servers were through him, and he should be able to give you a heads up on your server there.
Posted by Slacker, 09-05-2004, 09:56 AM
Yeah I emailed him last night after I tracked down where my server is. Hopefully I can get back up soon.
Posted by 5need, 09-05-2004, 10:23 AM
Hello , I recive my server in 6/8/2004 ! after some days the server go down ! i sumbit a reboot ticket no answer after that i know about the problem between Managed.com/AN before 2 days i must send the money to angelnetworkz@managed.com then to send a message to Kevin with my server will be up in 15 minutes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I do the payment and then send the message to KEVIN WITH MY SERVRER IP after 5 - 6 hours he reply me with this mail ok managed will send us an email asking if you are staying with us or transferring to them. I need to know what you want to do so I can answer them. Once that's done they will send you a form to sign and return and then they'll power up the server Kevin and i reply him im still watting the forms ... no replys to now 20 HOURS FINISH and RICHEL SAID THAT AFTER YOU SEND THE IP YOUR SERVER WILL BE UP WITHIN 15 minutes I LOSE MANY CUSTOMERS REALLY BAD ............. Please help me to fix my problem
Posted by UH-Matt, 09-05-2004, 10:27 AM
We cant help... what can we do for you? There are many threads about AN running right now. The best advice is to read through those existing threads for help or advice from other customers.
Posted by thefast, 09-05-2004, 10:30 AM
I think they are more interested in getting ur money than helping U.
Posted by nybble, 09-05-2004, 11:26 AM
I submitted a support ticket to ask about refunds - no reply, figures. I was going to call Kevin, but as always he never picks up his phone so why bother anymore.
Posted by thefast, 09-05-2004, 01:54 PM
Let's not give up
Posted by Slacker, 09-05-2004, 03:42 PM
I naively sent AN a helpdesk ticket last night about my outage before I knew what was going on. "Tara" said she'd look into it, then replied that it was fixed. With that kind of knack for weasel-speak, should could have landed a prime-time speaking spot at the Republican Nation Conveniton. I emailed her back asking to be released as a client immediately so I can get back online with TMS.
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-05-2004, 04:01 PM
You're free to do that, however, it very well could come back to haunt you eventually, because of the fact that you CHOSE paypal as your authorized payment, the payment WAS authorized to paypal, paypal has done nothing wrong. As they said, this is a "service" purchased, and their refunds do not cover services (read back in the thread, I posted a link to their terms and buyer protection policies). The most that can come out of any complaints to them is AN being investigated, their account frozen, which it appears has been done. Nothing more can be done by paypal. Like I said, this is service, not product. Refunds are covered on goods ONLY.
Posted by thefast, 09-05-2004, 04:07 PM
Our complaint is open ... and the transactiondate was end of june.
Posted by sprintserve, 09-05-2004, 04:11 PM
Actually Paypal can't do anything usually if you charge back (but I don't advice you use charge backs as the solution of the first resort) I ever had one guy who charge back to his credit card and Paypal just deduct our funds This is the reason why Paypal actually have an option in your account that allows you to reject payments from those who had their credit card as the primary funding source.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-05-2004, 04:17 PM
Isn't charging back PayPal illegal (it must breach some contract with your bank over legitimate reasons for chargebacks)? PayPal delivered the service you were charged for, sending money to someone on your behalf.
Posted by whmcsguru, 09-05-2004, 04:21 PM
Yes, it would seem illegal, however, according (again) to the TOS, it's not. The way their terms word it (as I understand it that is): You MAY chargeback with your bank, OR you MAY chargeback with paypal. IF a chargeback is handled through your bank AND you have a chargeback done through paypal, the one done through paypal will automatically be closed, and you will be subject to your banks processes. If your chargeback through paypal is denied, you may launch a chargeback through your bank. You may not have both chargebacks open at the same time. As you said, it seems that it'd be illegal to do a chargeback against paypal, because of the fact that THEY did their job (all they have to do is supply the funds, that's all), but they're being nice about chargebacks. I still wouldn't push that chargeback through the bank though, because they are well known to cut individuals off for no reason (or for what the individuals view as no reason).
Posted by nybble, 09-05-2004, 05:01 PM
Still no word on my refund, last I saw they had forum polls going "should I quit". Maybe all the support staff are gone?
Posted by lyew, 09-06-2004, 12:02 AM
I just got my server back online. It looks like whether or not you decide to stay with AN or switch over the Managed, you'll still have to wait for managed.com to send you a form to complete. After that, they will then reactivate the server. I got mine on Saturday evening, signed it and sent it back as a PDF document. Within 24 hours my server was back online.
Posted by gilbert, 09-06-2004, 12:25 AM
i dont know about you guys but this is getting pretty silly with my post being on page 40, the only reason webhostingtalk doesnt mind is thats 40 pages of ad revenue maybe someones on some sweet revenege or angel networks grew tooo toooo fast, issues are always a matter of buissness ethichs and who parterns with who good luck to all parties and may the force be with you guys gilbert ps. you get what you pay for
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-06-2004, 12:51 AM
Except for the 'buy one get one free' offers they posted on WHT, which I did not take advantage of, AN's server prices on their site were never less than Managed or ServerMatrix or Nocster for the same configurations (except Nocster charged a setup for the same prices, and SM sometimes does). Price wasn't an indicator of anything unless you were a WHTer that reads the ad-spam forums.
Posted by TimBraz, 09-06-2004, 02:57 AM
I am glad that someone got theres back on over the weekend. I sent my paypal payment in on Thursday along with the signed contract and I am still down. The only thing I have received is an email stating they would have it verified with the billing dept. I then sent a reply to sales as well as support and still no response.
Posted by TimBraz, 09-06-2004, 02:58 AM
I should have said I sent it back to them with the paypal trans number as well as the contract a second time. and no response yet.
Posted by Studio64, 09-07-2004, 08:40 PM
Did your ticket ever get resolved ... I'm sorry... Just kinda scary how this whole thread got started... Always kinda startles me when i begin to view this thread....
Posted by nybble, 09-07-2004, 09:02 PM
Well 2 tickets, 50 calls & 5 emails later - Angelnet still won't talk to me.
Posted by nybble, 09-08-2004, 05:23 PM
Well, they spoke. Told me to contact Donna. :-(
Posted by thefast, 09-08-2004, 06:01 PM
Post the complete posting
Posted by nybble, 09-08-2004, 06:10 PM
"please speak to donna"
Posted by Trayton, 09-09-2004, 05:09 PM
I want to say I want to try to get all of us together that have problems or money owing and what not all on the same page and everyone knowning whats going on. I might need a few really dedicated people to help me with this also but for now. Anyone with questions/comments/problems/money owing to them please email me at : angelnetworkz [@] gmail.com (lots of space lol I expect a lot of emails) Anyone willing to help me out with where we might take this please let me know in private message thanks. PLEASE INCLUDE IN TOPIC WHAT YOUR EMAIL IS CONCERNING : (example) Refund (if so how much) server specs, when you payed, how long you've had your server any problems with the server, if you have filed a paypal complaint, if you have had any money refunded etc. The more info we have the easier this will be to organize. Last edited by Trayton; 09-09-2004 at 05:13 PM.
Posted by twidnet, 09-11-2004, 09:43 PM
After the last episode, I made my escape from AN, then took off for some traveling. You can only imagine my (lack of) surprise to return and find many threads about AN's latest meltdown. Ha. Ha. Ha. This would be the time to insert "I told you so", but I won't do that. Instead, I hope at least some of you heeded the warnings sounded by some of us and made your escape quickly after things came back up for awhile a week and a half ago. P-Nut, I'm very happy you finally saw the light.
Posted by twidnet, 09-11-2004, 10:47 PM
And people were giving me crap for my posts at the end of August about the contradictions and inconsistencies in the claims Donna posted? Oh. My. GOD. Thanks for those threads, it just totally completes the picture of Donna as a pathological liar. The funniest thing is her pretending she's about to head off to Iraq in March of 2003 to fly helicopters in the war. Guess they must outfit those things with wireless internet access since she was all over the forum right here through March and into April when she was gone from the forum linked above. And then her "sister" claiming Donna got shot up or something and was coming home. Riiiiiiight. Guess Donna got tired of not being able to post as herself there.
Posted by nybble, 09-11-2004, 10:50 PM
Man... you are talking about people who are full of it, half the people on the forum here have a screwed up past! None the less... I don't know what she was thinking trying to sell servers below costs - maybe it was just a quick money-grab. Oh well, I will just hope I get a few bucks back :|
Posted by twidnet, 09-11-2004, 11:14 PM
Screwed up isn't the same as making up whole chunks of your life and then not being able to keep track of your lies. I'd hope that most people get over their screwups and learn a thing or two. Donna never learns anything. Like how difficult it is to lie about things that can be checked very easily. And that she should just stop pretending to be Rachel already. The more I read over at that other forum, the more disgusted I am about the whole thing, and the more incredulous I am at the people who constantly said to cut her a break and that her story timeline (air force, IBM, college, AN) could be accurate at all. Yeah, if you looked at it sideways with one eye closed, squinted with the other, and were half pissed on your favorite drink.
Posted by Paul33, 09-12-2004, 03:56 AM
I know everybody is wanting a piece of AN just now but my first priority is to somehow get access to my AN hosted site and, in particular, the emails that will have presumably log-jammed since Friday. I offered to pay for access as per an earlier posting and emailed Kevin@AN who basically said "ok, contact Donna@AN with your details and she'll have you up on the new server asap". Don't tell me I'm dumb to go down this route because I need to see those emails ! I did that but haven't heard or seen anything since, either from Donna or Kev. Their site appears to be slowly returning to some level of apparant normality so I get the impression someone at AN is still alive and kicking. I don't want you to all come back and throw names about (there's 40 pages of that !), I just want to know if anyone is aware of what is happening and if anyone is back up and running.
Posted by BigBison, 09-12-2004, 05:27 AM
"please speak to Donna"
Posted by Paul33, 09-12-2004, 09:40 AM
I've emailed Donna as instructed by Kev and chased up twice !!!
Posted by twidnet, 09-12-2004, 12:24 PM
He was being funny. Don't hold your breath waiting to hear from anyone at AN. Won't happen. Since they've once again deleted the database for their forums, you can't go there, either (oops, I mean, the database deleted itself, right). If it's just your account, you should pack it off somewhere else. That way, at least after the nameserver changes are in place after 24 hours, you'll be able to get mail. I've been reading all the posts at the gaming forum linked above (thanks - they are fascinating!) and it's just amazing the stories Donna has told. What's more amazing is that anyone continued to believe her as she dug herself deeper into the hole, or continued to believe her here when she spun out her fantasies of being able to continue to run AN as a money-losing company. Since I'm idle the next few days, I do believe I'll compile a page of the inconsistencies, inaccuracies, and outright lies from Donna/AN. Should be fun. Toodles.
Posted by nybble, 09-12-2004, 10:02 PM
Someone want to post the facts? I am lost in all this mess. Is Donna even in Canada?
Posted by twidnet, 09-12-2004, 11:00 PM
The headers from sprintserve make it appear that way, sure. She probably is in Canada. She probably really is about 32. The rest is all up for grabs, IMO.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-14-2004, 06:36 PM
Oh well:
Posted by BlikWerk, 09-14-2004, 06:42 PM
I got the same email. It was worth a shot, though. CC chargeback comes next...
Posted by thefast, 09-14-2004, 10:48 PM
Paypal : "The seller did not respond to our requests for confirmation that the package was shipped to your address. Therefore, we attempted to award you a full refund. Unfortunately, there were insufficient funds available in the seller's PayPal account to complete the refund. PayPal does not consider this a satisfactory resolution of this complaint. We have taken action against this seller's account until the complaint has been resolved. No further action is required of you at this time. We value your business and regret this experience. Any portion of the payment which was funded with your credit card will be refunded directly to your credit card. Credits to a credit card generally take 2-3 business days to post, and may not be immediately reflected in the card's balance."
Posted by nybble, 09-14-2004, 10:53 PM
Does that go for everyone or just the people who sent money and then bickered about it?
Posted by thefast, 09-14-2004, 10:56 PM
Donna is alive ? : "Funds are limited and paypal themselves are limiting our abilities to refund people" "We ourselves cannot seem to get in touch with them, we phone and email but get nowhere to even discuss this with them." "Refunds will be done as funds are available but it will take some time." "PayPal and Visa can investigate all they want, PayPal themselves is dropping complaints left right and center because after going over the transactions they've no doubt seen that we never kept any of the money (not a dime) and therefore couldn't have been attempting to defraud anyone since the money was sent to suppliers not to us."
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-14-2004, 11:00 PM
I didn't see anyone post that PayPal is dropping complaints. I saw them open up complaints that are automatically closed (because they're over 30 days and services) -- going above and beyond their buyer protection policy -- and resolving them in favor of the buyers, but not being able to refund any money because it's not there to send.
Posted by Mortekai, 09-14-2004, 11:34 PM
That shows that PayPal are not all bad people I belive the complaints dropped are those that either have tried to get a full refund when they are not entitled to it or releted to the BOGO where they end up on the bad end of the stick (paid/free issues) and since you cant refund free its being dropped. There are probably other cases as well and I feel sorry for those not getting a refund. I also feel sorry for the clients that still is around and now is completely out of the loop and have nowhere to go to try to get things sorted. I dont think anyone will willingly admit they are still AN clients here on WHT anymore with the past horrors in mind... Still, I am going to setup a new board when I get home trying to organise things and try to squeeze some information about what is going on and try to help those that are still stuck with server issues and Cpanel issues. Fortunately for me my issues has been worked out and I can now dedicate some time to help others in need, even if I may not be able to do much....
Posted by thefast, 09-15-2004, 09:10 AM
Not true .. in case of a complaint with VISA U always get the full amount of the transaction back, no matter how many months U already had with AN.
Posted by Mortekai, 09-15-2004, 11:40 AM
I am sorry thefast, I must have missed something there....what did my post have to do with VISA? Of course you get your money back if you file with the CC company (most of the time anyway), but my post was about PayPal? Just got a bit confused
Posted by above, 09-15-2004, 12:00 PM
my email just bounced to them :/ angelnetworkz.net = down
Posted by Mortekai, 09-15-2004, 12:04 PM
Nods. Did you need some help with anything above?
Posted by thefast, 09-15-2004, 01:01 PM
Oops .. a bit confused too Anyway .. the part on paypal that was payed with creditcard than
Posted by above, 09-15-2004, 01:02 PM
yeah trying to get a refund
Posted by tommyd, 09-15-2004, 02:07 PM
I am not sure how relivant this is, however be careful with doing a chargeback on a Paypal transacation with your bank or credit card company. Paypal will shut off your account I "believe" if you do that and that will ruin all chances of getting anything from paypal for this situation. Just figured I would jump in an hopefully help someone out in case they use the same account for their personal business. -Tom
Posted by TimBraz, 09-15-2004, 02:18 PM
That is EXACTLY why I moved from AN to Managed.. I cannot believe that some stayed with AN.. I would not have cared how much money I had invested with them. Since I switched directly to managed, I have had no problems other than getting back on track with xpanel and other scripts..
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-15-2004, 04:45 PM
Sent my notice to Managed a few days ago that I do not plan to renew my server after the first 30 days I paid for. No cPanel license despite paying their price for server+cpanel, no information regarding helpdesk or reboots, no TOS or AUP... I'm not doing business like that. The only companies I trust for servers anymore are NAC and TP.
Posted by Mortekai, 09-15-2004, 05:59 PM
LOL Good we got that cleared up Dan, did you transfer to managed and did not get Cpanel set up or did you stay with AN? I dont know how the Cpanel issues worked out for those that transfered to managed....anyone know if more people ended up without their cpanel because of their move?
Posted by TimBraz, 09-15-2004, 08:36 PM
I had to pay for cpanel 19 on top of my server.. I have a couple of emails in to support to ask them about this.. I had cpanel and fantastico on my server when it was with AN.. so maybe we can get it back with managed.. On another note.. I turned in a support ticket to managed to setup reverse dns on my server and they responded pretty fast.. nothing back on the cpanel, Fantastico issue as of yet though.
Posted by Mortekai, 09-15-2004, 08:51 PM
I belive you will need to contact softwareworks directly for that as Managed dont handle that themselves. Drop a note to cpanel@softwareworks.com if you have not already and see what they say about it.
Posted by above, 09-15-2004, 10:09 PM
Seller's Name: John LaGaipa Seller's Email: john.lagaipa@verizon.net We have determined that the seller is at fault in this matter but regret to inform you that we were unable to recover any funds from the seller's account. As stated in the PayPal User Agreement, recovery of funds associated with a Buyer Complaint cannot be guaranteed. :`(
Posted by Mortekai, 09-15-2004, 10:31 PM
Sorry to hear that above...
Posted by above, 09-15-2004, 10:54 PM
So how do i contact these idiots? I hope they are out of biz
Posted by Mortekai, 09-15-2004, 11:10 PM
For your sake I hope they are not, so they can eventually give you a refund.
Posted by above, 09-15-2004, 11:47 PM
they should give refunds and call it quits
Posted by Mortekai, 09-16-2004, 12:11 AM
Unfortunately for us all those 2 seem to cancel eachother out....cant refund if they fold as they dont have any money, so lets hope they can kick through so we can all get our money back or our moneys worth.
Posted by NH-Benjamin, 09-16-2004, 11:59 AM
Did AN throw in the towel? I have been checking this thread now and then as it has became interesting indeed. Their site surely is not loading for me thats for sure.
Posted by nybble, 09-16-2004, 12:02 PM
Who knows... they would like us to think they didn't but at the same time they won't event alk to us so they are just about as good as dead.
Posted by nybble, 09-16-2004, 12:05 PM
Hmm.... Donna & Harold Mercer 582 Eagle Cres Gold River, BC V0P 1G0 (250) 283-7387 Hmmmmm........... I can't find anything for "Donna" herself but I am going to call her ISP and see what we can do.
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-16-2004, 12:17 PM
You can get a court order for real contact info or leave the multiple Donna Mercers in Canada alone.
Posted by nybble, 09-16-2004, 12:19 PM
So whats it cost to get a 'court order'?
Posted by sprintserve, 09-16-2004, 12:43 PM
How can you be sure it's the same person?
Posted by jheslop1, 09-16-2004, 12:45 PM
How can you be sure it's not the same person?
Posted by Dan Grossman, 09-16-2004, 12:48 PM
That question is wholly irrelevant.
Posted by starlite, 09-16-2004, 02:33 PM
yes you can you may need to contact managed.com at info@managed.com
Posted by Central Dispatch, 09-17-2004, 01:10 AM
The main culprit is hidden and always remains hidden in a natural world. The people around the virus always suffers the most.
Posted by Paul33, 09-17-2004, 05:54 AM
I did get a communication from Donna on Monday to say they were setting up a new server and to change namehosts from angelnetworkz. net to angelnetworkz.com. I did this and 48 hours later was back up and running ....... cool ......... then, after 24 hours, it went down . I emailed both Donna and Kevin at ANz but, this time, no reply from either so I decided to give up and go elsewhere ! I can live with downtime but I can't live with lack of communication ......... there COULD be excuses for downtime but not for failure to talk to those relying on you. My advice to anyone sticking it out is .......... give up and go elsewhere !
Posted by cbianchi, 09-17-2004, 07:29 AM
Why? Is there REALLY still someone with a server at AN? Amazing! It's called masochism :-) Cristiano
Posted by thefast, 09-17-2004, 01:20 PM
LOL
Posted by sprintserve, 09-17-2004, 01:22 PM
I think this has gone as far as it can go. There's nothing constructive being discussed other than potshots taken. Thread closed.