SelectVPS Downtime -- Answers

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Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-04-2006, 10:55 PM
Well, this is basically the same thing as whats going on with OmegaVPS but here is my side... Back in June-July we got in touch with a reseller of Keith Dedazio (wrong last name).. This person really never supported me with the machines (Over heated Dual Xeons and bad OS Reloads (missing files)).. So, We got in touch with Keith around the end of July-Early August.. We started talking about servers.. and talking deals. So, Keith offered us a deal for $500.00 for 10 servers.. thats one hell of a deal if you ask me.. So we decided to take him up on this.. Well, We got the servers up within a few days and we decided to get more.. and more we got within a week... So after having ~20 to 30 servers we decided to get another 80 servers from Keith.. We pre-paid for these servers and they were all up and online within a 2 weeks... We were just about finished filling up those servers and we ordered a hundred more servers... These servers were to be put online this month in ATL, MIA, and LA (Peer1s new Dedicated Hosting facility)... Yesterday, I got wind of a $18,000 past due invoice for the servers.. It seemed kinda odd as we dont even pay that much for our servers now.. So we questions Keith about this and we were told it was a mistake on Peer1s part... Today While I was at work, I received a few phone calls from A. Lopez and W. Farnum.. I called Wesley back when I got his voice mail... I also tried to call Azues about this as well.. Well, We got into talking about things and this is what the outcome is now: Someone changed the Primary Account Information into my name -> I never Ordered from Peer1, I was given Access to Peer1's MyManagedHosting.com account for Support Tickets and Support Tickets only.. Azues and Wesley Confrenced Called me tonight around 8pm CST and we talked about the servers and what not and basically, I was told "The next time we speak or see each other that it will be in court over a $98,000 bill to me." -> Why would this be to me when it was KEITH WHO ORDERED THE SERVERS AND I PAID KEITH?? Yes, I accepted a few of the TOS, Ryan accepted some, Andre Accepted some, and Keith Accepted some.. So, HOW would someone grant me access to be the PRIMARY ACCOUNT HOLDER without my permission?!? So, We are cut offline so are the other 200+ servers resold by Keith... Im sure you'll here about other companies and mis-haps with resellers from Keith.. I'm sure there are other companies that you'll hear from about this.. -- Its not a Network issue, its a Money Owed problem.. So Every company will have to re-pay the money due from DAY 1 (For Us, it was $199,000.00 but the amount owed is $98,000.00) -- In order to get the servers back online, this debt must be paid in full. What my Im going to do for MY Customers @ SelectVPS is pay them back as soon as I can... There are / were over 50 customers and Im going to have to fight with Peer1 and Keith to get my money back to refund everyone.. I do apologize for this happening.. and I intend to pay everyone their money back..
Posted by dredy, 10-04-2006, 11:11 PM
are you kidding me? i dont want money back i want my server come back. i have a database on this server continuous updating and i need this current database!!!
Posted by Karri, 10-04-2006, 11:16 PM
I am in the same boat I need my data. Peer 1 indicated the MIGHT work with me if they had permission from the person who owned the account to talk to me. I would be on the phone with them in a sec if they had permission to give me my data.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-04-2006, 11:17 PM
When I got wind of this tonight after confirming it with Wesley and Azues... I just wanted to I wish I could say "Late April Fools" but I cant Im going to try my best tomorrow to get the servers back online for 24hrs to allow everyone a chance to get their files off of the servers... Sorry
Posted by amravit, 10-04-2006, 11:48 PM
i dont know what to say or what to do it was nice knowing u man i will pay for other peoples fault and u will do same still we were mistaken when we dreamed about low prices servers which no one can offer regards amr
Posted by dredy, 10-04-2006, 11:51 PM
you must fight for get servers back online asap instead of money back. we host some important sites and datas. we need that servers at least a few hours for get data.
Posted by Theventor, 10-04-2006, 11:55 PM
Well Guys, Here is my story. I started out as a sales person for Keiths company, and as we got more sales i started helping customs out with there problems and concerns. Keith then moved me up to tech for SteamPoweredServers. And we made a deal that I would tech for him at the price of (4) Duel Xeon 3.0Ghz with 2-4GB of ram in each with (2)250GB Hard drives with Radio 0. Which i got. Then I noticed the client Plat. come in and noticed the problems he had. As Keith cleared this issue up with Plat i never saw much of Plat any more. Now, maybe 2 months later i noticed all the servers of keiths suddenly go offline. I contact the Peer1 to wonder what was going on, but evidently Keith got every box reformatted (even customer boxes without telling them). Now, if you don't know me I am xDx from GameSurge IRC. I currently Co - own SteamIDBots on gamesurge. And as we are the 3rd largest botservice, So i placed 30 bots on 3 boxes (10 per box). So when keith reformatted the boxes i lost 30 bots (3x200 = 600 Channels Registered) so we lost 600 channels (Luckly we made a back up the week before so we lost only 50 channels). So we were in the hole at that time. Come to find out Plat. had bought the whole client list of Keiths (60 - 100 boxes) for 15$/month for each box. Which made me mad as it broke mine and keiths agreement. Now, as soon as that happened I took keiths domain and put in on a DNS of godaddys for parked. 10 minutes later he calls me asking for his domain. I kindly explain to him what the deal was and he then gave me 4 new boxes. Which come to find out were the ones that was not reformatted so as soon as i got everything back up that got reformatted. Again, I took keiths domain back and told him the same deal. He gave me 4 new boxes and put the domain on his account. Now, those boxes were shut down and now we are partly offline. We had 30 SteamIDBots ping out today due to the servers going offline and we put 30 more back up but now i can barely use my own computer due to the 200 window limit for windows. So in all I, and SteamIDBots got majorly screwed because of this guys. And the guys name is Keith Mansfield. I have tried leaving messages, calling him, and doing what I can but I got majorly screwed. I am now in search of a company to sponsor SteamIDBots with 3 windows boxes so we can live on and forget this mass mess this one person has caused all of us. As for Plat. I will stand beside him 100%, Plat as for you if they decide to sue you I will personally make a trip up there and defend your case with you. I do not know how much good it will do but I and just outraged by what this person has done. Thanks
Posted by Mivo, 10-05-2006, 12:13 AM
The relevant questions now are: 1) Does Peer1 still hold our data? and 2) Is it possible for Peer1 to allow us to pull our data or to negotiate and go direct with them?
Posted by sakibin, 10-05-2006, 12:14 AM
Yes, that's interesting story among you Theventor, your company & Plat. We don't want to sue anyone & don't have enough time to do so, we need the database that's very important to our business. Plats have to contact Peer1 or do anything else to get our server back online asap.
Posted by Theventor, 10-05-2006, 12:15 AM
No, They will not allow that unless all bills are paid (98,000$ dollars).
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 12:16 AM
1.) Im sure they have the servers and havent wiped them clean yet.. 2.) Im planning on this first thing in the morning.. Also, Dispute all the things I have said about one certain company on here.. They haven come to me offering a hand of help on this.. -- Thank You Jay and Dnow!
Posted by WireNine, 10-05-2006, 12:16 AM
Lets hope you can bring the servers back online for at least 24 hours to allow the customers to access their data. Looks like Keith really put you in the hole. Best of luck.
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-05-2006, 12:19 AM
Basically, I am *&(*&(*^%ed.
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-05-2006, 12:19 AM
Who actually owns the servers? Are they property of SelectVPS, Peer 1, or some third party?
Posted by FHDave, 10-05-2006, 12:21 AM
I have no idea what's the problem here ... can somebody summarize? Too many broken English in this thread ...
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 12:22 AM
My guess is that they are Peer1's servers -- Keith just resold them and I resold from him... Keith told me before that the servers are his and he "rents" the CPU's from peer1 (Yes, I know thats a crock of ----)
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-05-2006, 12:24 AM
is it possible to rent the server from peer1 for one day?
Posted by Theventor, 10-05-2006, 12:26 AM
Not sure. Maybe, but the bills have to be paid some how. So much of used B/W it is amazing :/
Posted by Karri, 10-05-2006, 12:26 AM
they won't talk to you at all about the server or the data without the permission of the actual account holder and since we are all contracted with selectvps, they won't talk to us. Now I don't know if we need Robert's permission or this Keith person now.
Posted by Theventor, 10-05-2006, 12:29 AM
Karri, Keith placed the hold to Plat. But now they wont talk to Robert because of how much he owes. They are preparing to file a law suit.
Posted by Jagelski, 10-05-2006, 12:31 AM
Well, I am really sorry for that. You were a nice company and I liked your deals. When am I going to be refunded? (jagelski).
Posted by Karri, 10-05-2006, 12:32 AM
lovely. so we really are screwed. what or who exactly is Plat?
Posted by Theventor, 10-05-2006, 12:33 AM
Plat = Robart, Owner of SelectVPS. No one has been screwed. We are in a group of 5 people trying to fix this issue as fast as we can.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 12:33 AM
Plat is a shortened name for me.. PlatinumN23 (dont know why.. i guess theventor (matt?) is too lazy to type PlatinumN23 or Robert )
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-05-2006, 12:34 AM
so does that mean we are screwed?
Posted by Karri, 10-05-2006, 12:40 AM
Got ya. So we pretty much wait and hope that by day light Peer 1 hasn't wiped the machines and that they will give us time to backup the data. Heck, if they want to give us access to the data in the dead of night, I am all over that. The sooner the better.
Posted by rolz14, 10-05-2006, 12:41 AM
I really need the data asap :/
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 12:42 AM
Robert I just gota say I'm F*cked if I can't get backup from my server man. I had 2 major sites running on that server with over 180gb of data, which I worked 1 year 24/7 to collect them! I dont want refund, just manage to get me a backup, I'll even pay extra for it. Please do something so at least we can get a backup. I'm having a heart attack here man
Posted by freshy, 10-05-2006, 12:46 AM
This is unbelievable.... I have been a customer of selectVPS for a little over a 4 days... And i just managed to migrate all accounts to the new server... I dont care about that data as i still have backups, i just want a refund....
Posted by Theventor, 10-05-2006, 12:47 AM
Okay Guys, Put it this way. We are working on getting you the refunds. I don't even work for this company and I am helping Plat (robert) to get you, your money back.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 12:48 AM
Man f*ck the money get us a backup!
Posted by Saish, 10-05-2006, 12:51 AM
holy... dammit i need a backup too!
Posted by amravit, 10-05-2006, 12:51 AM
same boat man we are all on same boat
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 12:57 AM
Alright.. All I need is a simple file. If I need to phone f*cking Peer1 to get it give me a number. Otherwise I will check back tomorrow and see what is up. I have been loosing money left and center and I guess it is time for me to upgrade and just buy a server from a DC. - Steve Last edited by Dub; 10-05-2006 at 01:03 AM.
Posted by Karri, 10-05-2006, 01:04 AM
Peer 1 wont speak to you because you are not the name on the account. I have tried, talked to every one in Peer 1 that I could get on the phone. They claim they need the permission of the account holder to even speak to us about the data.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 01:04 AM
Robert please ask them, see if we can contact them and pay them to get our back up man!
Posted by Theventor, 10-05-2006, 01:06 AM
Guys, you dont understand. Peer1 doesnt work like that, best bet is to wait till we can resolve this issue. We are handling it, so please do not fret.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 01:07 AM
Buddy do you understand how f*cked we are???
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 01:08 AM
Alright.. I just need a steady update if possible Robert. So I can notify customers. For now I shall move my stuff over to my other server.. Though that backup really would mean ATON too me. - Steve
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 01:11 AM
I plan on speaking to Peer1 about this situation tomorrow.. I am hoping that I can get Peer1 to put the servers back online for everyone to get their backups from them. I've seen something like this happen in the past and the provider granted the users 24hrs to get a backup from the servers -- Which is great news if i can get the same thing to happen..
Posted by Theventor, 10-05-2006, 01:12 AM
Robert, me, and a few other companys who got screwed over are handling this. yes i know how screwed you are. I lost 400$ through keith but I am not worried about it. And you guys keep asking for permission to contact them. But in order to gain access you need to have the Secert password, which is the key that holds all your information. Trust me, we are doing what we can for you guys.
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-05-2006, 01:12 AM
Yup. Doesn't this sum it up for everyone.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 01:14 AM
Alright man, I understand your situation too, Robert I'll do whatever I can for you and Im telling you I dont want refund from you guys, just get me a backup and I'll even help you money wise as much as I can
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 01:14 AM
May I ask about refunds? Are we going to get some kind of compensation for our troubles? Or is that out of the question? - Steve
Posted by sakibin, 10-05-2006, 01:17 AM
What's the time now in your country ? I reload my website every minute to wait.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 01:20 AM
We are going to pro-rate the refunds for the amount of time you didnt receive.. IE: If you paid for 1 month and received 29 days of the 31, you'll receive a refund for the 2 days of downtime.. If you received <7 days of service we were going to refund the full amount.. Thank You,
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 01:22 AM
It is now 12:20AM CST (GMT -6) So at 8:30AM I will be calling Azues and Wesley about the servers... (that would be 9:30AM Their time (GMT -5)..
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 01:24 AM
Alright. Sounds fair.. Get some sleep guys, you need it for the battle tomorrow.. If you get up the VPS's NOTIFY everyone IMMENDENTLY. I have alot of data and it will take abit to get off. Aswell as different timezones, etc. If anyone is going to be away when the VPS are up or what not. Please PM or email me at steven@delfone.com with your info and I will only be happy to get your datas for you. Thanks Robert for your service. Really have been great being your customer. - Steve
Posted by amravit, 10-05-2006, 01:41 AM
i wish you the best robert i will wait to what ever happen to my server to move the clients amr
Posted by PortLayer, 10-05-2006, 02:01 AM
I have also been a customer for about a week on a dedicated server. My server was randomly reformatted and now disconnected. I was getting a littled pissed off at them but now I see why issues are as they are. And I am behind SelectVPS all the way, this is terrible. Data isn't an issue for me, new server and all, but a refund would be nice. Let's just hope this is all cleared up.
Posted by freshy, 10-05-2006, 02:29 AM
Yeah a refund would be good but my biggest problem is that no one comes close to the price i got for my server... I've been looking around all morning and sending away emails but its useless... Best case scenario for me would be if SelectVPS gets the servers back under similiar pricing, although i know theres a lot of stuff that needs to be soughted out first... I feel for SelectVPS and Omega, both new companies trying to break into hosting and then something like this happens. Ohwell, thats my short rant, hope it gets soughted out soon
Posted by PortLayer, 10-05-2006, 02:44 AM
Oh trust me, that is my problem too. I have been scouring for someplace that will give me a Dual Opteron 265 server with 1GB of ram and 1500GB of bandwidth for 175/mo with cPanel. It's impossible. I thought I struck gold with SelectVPS. Heh. On that note, if anyone can offer NEAR this, let me know.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 02:46 AM
Selectvps Is Perfect, Not Just For Price, They Are Great People. Im Really Sorry For What Happened
Posted by amravit, 10-05-2006, 02:48 AM
i agree robert is great guy
Posted by cpecss, 10-05-2006, 03:11 AM
Me to, this has really annoyed me since this was the second time, and we havent had the server 1 month! please get them back up atleast so i can get my data for my clients
Posted by stealthservers, 10-05-2006, 03:15 AM
Expect nothing from Keith, he will only lie to you. He is a classic example of an online thief. I am sorry to hear about your loss. I lost two servers with lots of clients data on it. Peer 1 would not work with me, I warned them of Keith and they took no recourse. If I were you, I would get a lawyer
Posted by lamans, 10-05-2006, 03:26 AM
StealthServers What do you mean you warned them? Like did you make them aware of this Keith characters past or something. If so then I am afaid to say that the fault lies with Peer 1 and there mission to get there money back has been dealt a serious blow, but please clarify what you mean before i jump the gun Thanks
Posted by ihostdev, 10-05-2006, 04:00 AM
Well i have heard the whole story from the begining and i find it funny that it seems both keith and peer1 are trying to be crooks here. keith has been reselling servers from peer1 for over 6 months now. He has always paid his bills. The reason why he was able to sell the so cheap was that he had a contract with interland. They were bought out by a company that owns peer1 i believe it goes. So peer1 is honoring the contract. Now this has been verified by a account manager with peer1. So now keith stopped paying for his contract and peer1 turns around to the other name that was added to the account for support issues and to speak on behalf of the account. Now they are telling robert that be has to pay full price for these servers even though that was not keiths agreement with them and who they should actually be contacting for payment. So it seems that they are basically trying to extort money from selectvps that they have no rights to. It just sounds like something is not right on peer1's end as they were the ones that confirmed there dealings with keith and turn around and say other wise and threaten to sue for payment.
Posted by stealthservers, 10-05-2006, 04:59 AM
Well here is my story. I was working with Keith for about 5 months, and was one of his first customers. After 5 months of loyal service, my servers go down one day. He was literally impossible to make contact with. I tried all the numbers he provided. After at least one week with no contact from Keith, I called Peer-1. I wish I would have noted the name of the tech I talked to, but unfortunately I didn’t. I explained to him that all my servers were shut down, and that I had basically been scammed by Keith. I also explained how I knew of others whose servers were taken away as well. He basically told us there was nothing he could do. I then was VERY blunt with him, and explained to him, that Keith was a scammer, and they were providing service to a fraud. I made this very clear to them. Peer-1 was absolutely doing business in a “sketchy matter”. Last I heard, he may have known someone at Peer-1 personally. I strongly feel Peer-1 is playing a large roll in all of this. Anyways after about two weeks, I had lost hope that I would get any servers back. After about three weeks I finally got to talk with one of Keith’s support techs, and he basically explained to me how Keith had reformatted both my servers. He also explained that Keith was a liar, and that he “faked” to be illiterate and dumb to make it seem like he was a nice guy I suppose? He was what I would call a typical internet scammer. He does not care what troubles he has caused you, and has no morals. You probably will have a lot of troubles sueing him, because all his phone numbers were through skype, and I am sure he lied about his name to everyone. I think the best route to get anything done, is through Peer-1. Depending on the amount of loss you have received, hiring a lawyer write a letter to Peer-1 would be a smart move. I am very glad I only rented 2 servers from Keith, as I always had my doubts about him. I would say to all customers of SelectVPS to realize that this company is most likely not at fault here. Your best resolution to this problem is to go after Peer-1 and Keith if possible. Peer-1 may be blowing you guys off now, but I have a feeling if they get 50+ people calling them, they are going to realize how large the problem on their hands really is. Anyways, good luck to you all, and if you guys are seeking info on Keith, I will provide all that I have. However who knows the legitimacy of the information. Regards, Brad
Posted by Bios, 10-05-2006, 06:29 AM
Bummer this has happened (being one of the customers). I never really got to settle in as I was getting a few problems at the start but I hope you can get backup again
Posted by WebhostingAsia, 10-05-2006, 06:34 AM
I Am ****ed Up Fully. First i was victim of WHP and lost all data last month and faced downtime of 11 days. Again a setback Robert. Should i go to a DC to get a new server or do u still hope that everything will be sorted out.
Posted by cpecss, 10-05-2006, 06:34 AM
me to, know im looking for a VPS in UK or USA or NL Giving around or near the same as what i had unless selectVPS can come back, i also had trouble with a client and InterHost UK no luck for me eh
Posted by Tuddy, 10-05-2006, 08:27 AM
Can I ask you all a serious question. If you get the latest woodcroft server with 16GB ram and 500GB space for about $350 a month, what do you expect? If something is too good to be true ....... you know the rest. This reminds me a lot like Angelnetworkz. Can I just ask, does selectVPS have a TOS and Uptime policy for dedicated servers?
Posted by lamans, 10-05-2006, 09:01 AM
Noob Above There is a saying that applies "if your not part of the solution your part of the problem" There is a lot of people in crisis mode at the minute, have some respect man
Posted by Tuddy, 10-05-2006, 09:03 AM
noob? maybe you should learn to read. "reminds me a lot like Angelnetworkz" I have been in the same boat. Now be a good person and answer my question. Were you given an uptime agreement? Last edited by Tuddy; 10-05-2006 at 09:11 AM.
Posted by IrdHost, 10-05-2006, 09:18 AM
Ok Robert, i wait your update because i also need access to server data. That is really important because my clients accounts migrations are done.
Posted by JenniH, 10-05-2006, 09:24 AM
I'd ignore him if I were you mate. There is always someone who jumps in trying to be a smart ar$e when people are really suffering. They seem to think that small print excuses anything... but are usually the first to cry when misfortune hits them. They add no value at all and clearly enjoy kicking people wen they are already down. It isn't a nice facet of some people's nature.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 10:04 AM
Robert what happened man? Please get us the good news
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 10:10 AM
Very sorry -- I lost power last night and my alarm clock went with it -- I just got up and Im calling them now as we speak.. Thanks,
Posted by iRAWR, 10-05-2006, 10:13 AM
I can't believe what I am reading here. My most heartfelt sympathies go out to waht you guys have been through and what you are going through currently.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 10:18 AM
Well, I just got off the phone with Azues. He basically said "This is going to our legal department. Unless, you dont have a check for me for $98,000; Im not going to talk about it." So much for this
Posted by IrdHost, 10-05-2006, 10:35 AM
what???? I cannot get access to my clients data?, I will call my lawyer.
Posted by dredy, 10-05-2006, 10:41 AM
it is not acceptable!! i want my data
Posted by cpecss, 10-05-2006, 10:54 AM
hmm Robert, the contract was with you and keith, maybe you should tell Peer1 This, i really would like my data, and really my vps you had excelent support and i will do anything i can to get this server back up, but not much because i aint rich! but id really like my data, took me ages to do my stuff
Posted by ayksolutions, 10-05-2006, 11:20 AM
What happened to this Keith character then? Is he still on the contract or did he just turn everything over to Robert without Robert's knowledge and disappear? I assume Peer1 has some type of an anti-fraud system to detect people like Keith? Surely Peer1 has some type of a record on him if he was their direct client. I am not sure how they can just sue SelectVPS here for the amount if it was Keith's contract with them in the first place, even if Robert was a secondary contact...?
Posted by Mivo, 10-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Robert, if everything you said in this thread is true, and with the amount of money involved, Peer1 is nuts for not touching base with you first and by issuing those servers without actually talking to you. Now they just found out your name is the primary client contact for these servers and now they are demanding you to just pay for it or otherwise you get sued? This is a little hazy for Peer1 here in setting up those servers if they haven't actually talked to you.
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 11:25 AM
This is not going to be easy. Just keep in contact with Peer1.. I am sure they are loosing a bunch of money out of this too but atleast they can do is provide there clients a 24 hour period to get there data off.. - Steve
Posted by ALS, 10-05-2006, 11:26 AM
The more and more I hear about Peer 1 is they are at fault as well. They aren't being resaonable in helping SelectVPS clients out and turning back the servers for short time. I would also stay away from Peer 1 ..... yes I understand they are out money but what about the SelectVPS clients....if they didn't have backups for their data other then the servers they lost money as well. Peer 1 will not even work out some kind of deal with these clients to get their data.......that is unreasonable. I don't know Peer 1's side .... as there are always two sides so there could be more who knows not me.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 11:34 AM
Peer1 had a FAKE LAST NAME for Keith... How does PEER1 Let that happen?? I was told "Kieth hasnt paid any bills from DAY 1" (6months ago from what I have seen).. Someone marked me as a Primary on the account WITHOUT my permission.. I spoke with Azues earlier today and he claimed my name was on the account as primary from day one.. when I questioned that and said "I couldnt get support access from Peer1 when I first got the servers" then I said "I told keith that I cant get support over the phone because 'im not on the account'" Keith told me that he'll make a phone call and get me on the account.. So the next day, i was on the account but under the account as "Administrator" and NOT "PRIMARY"! My deal was with Keith and not Peer1.. Keith has a deal with Peer1 -- Therefor, Peer1 Should contact Keith and not me.. How does a company let a reseller fall into so much debt?!?
Posted by Scott.Mc, 10-05-2006, 11:34 AM
I don't think that is entirely fair, ultimately what is going to happen is peer1 are down almost $100,000 , would you be reasonable? I am sure peer1 will assist selectvps but at present they are only trying to protect their own interest. As it works out, you need your data, peer1 need their money. If they give you the data, what then? You don't need anything, peer1 still need their money. -Scott
Posted by Scott.Mc, 10-05-2006, 11:38 AM
A company will let you get into debt from time to time, otherwise just like above they will be called unreasonable. Keith probably promised and promised to pay yet never actually done it and as months go by it just gets to a stage were enough is enough. Although that is quite worrying the fact they are trying to claim you for the money, I am sure peer1 will admit their faults for not verifying. -Scott
Posted by ALS, 10-05-2006, 11:43 AM
So I'm suppose to pay Peer 1 $100,000 for my data....I paid my bill for monthly fee. So Peer 1 made a mistake and didn't get paid by Kieth for 6 months thats my fault. They should have turned him off months ago....... then most of this wouldn't have happened. But what do I know I'm just one of the ***b f***s who looked for a GREAT deal grabbed it and got hit in the face and kicked in my *ss for my trouble..........
Posted by Scott.Mc, 10-05-2006, 11:48 AM
I did not say that, ultimately you have no control over this. It's between the host and peer1. It most likely will never get resolved. -Scott
Posted by Mivo, 10-05-2006, 11:49 AM
Exactly what sounds crazy here. They did not even try to contact you and talk to you personally when you started ordering dozens of servers?
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 11:49 AM
I was given "Account Managers" because I had so many servers.. Brooke Warren was my TAM (Technical Account Manager) and Jesse Smith was the SAM (Sales Account Manager).. If I ever needed to have something ordered / added I was told "contact keith and tell keith to contact me for it".. So I did that.. I never ordered thru peer1.. Not one single time.. Did I contact them directly, Yes I did.. When I asked keith for the new servers, he said he'll order them for me.. With Peer1, when you get a server ordered, you must accept the Terms of use, So, I personally accepted 15-20 of the Terms -- Keith and Jesse both told me to accept them and they would have the servers up shortly after.. So, Other then talking (verbally and through emails) to the Support people and through emails to Jesse; I have talked to them.. I have emailed and received emails from Wesley a few times (2-3 times) but that was about Keith moving servers into and out of my account as well as assigned cpanel to certain ips.. Were any Invoices sent to me? No, They were sent to Keith @ his email on the account... about 10days ago, keith gave me access to a email address "selectvps.insomniacservers@hotmail.com" he said "That is your email account now -- All the server info will go there.. Im guessing he knew things were getting ready to explode so he was going to move things into my name without my permission..
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 11:54 AM
I was contacted Yesterday by Wesley and Azues.. basically telling me "I hope you have a check for $98,000 for us" Im going to fight Peer1 all the way to court.. I'm not going to back down...
Posted by Karri, 10-05-2006, 11:57 AM
So is it time to revise that statement? I think I am like everyone here just wanting my data back. I don't care if they turn the server back on or give me access to it or whatever. Heck at this point I would be happy if they would just give me my database and a few minor files.
Posted by lamans, 10-05-2006, 11:57 AM
Does anyone know were Peer1 keep there reseller application forms . The following is based on my understading of the facts being accurate. If i were in charge in Peer 1 i would be looking to get my self out of the hole i just dug. There is probably very little chance they are giong to be able to recover any money from Keith so they are just going for the next best thing. Platinum I bed you own a house have some kind of assets that are obtainable. I bet your probably a solid member of the community so to say. Sorry to say but that makes you a soft target for big business. However they dont have a leg to stand on they are just doing some barking scare tatics which are effective so you have to give them credit. My solution to this if i were in charge of Peer1 is that i would want proof of payment to this Keith dude A. to help nail him down)and B. to prove that omega and select were also victims in this fraud. Then i would renegotiate terms with all of them effected with the aim at getting a return of my $100,000. With the number of clients that are involved what was it 500 boxes Peer 1 could make there money back in little over a year and double there money the following year. This is all bad business from the top on down. Lets be realistic its only a $100,000 which is in itself peanuts in the Datacentre Industry. Its not like Keith robbed Peer1's CEO's granny. Thats my 2 cents
Posted by ALS, 10-05-2006, 12:02 PM
Kiss it all goodbye.....Peer 1 will wipe them now....and not care not one bit. I emailed them and phone they won't talk to me....or reply back. I was willing if they are all about the money to pay for the time they turn it back for me to get my data but no reply nothing. So its time to start over.....you live and learn.....write this off as a LOSS.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 12:21 PM
omg, please robert, contact them again, and tell them we are willing to even pay for a backup
Posted by Gkhn, 10-05-2006, 12:21 PM
I am waiting for my partial refund...
Posted by aingaran, 10-05-2006, 12:22 PM
Any chance of resolution by contacting Peer1 head office instead of Atlanta/Miami NOC?
Posted by reiteration, 10-05-2006, 12:33 PM
This is a really dificuly position to be in, Robert can't legally be bound to anything unless he has signed an agreement. Peer1 most likley won't give access to the servers as they are down 100k - can you blame them ? Its time to face up to the situation at hand and realise your not going to get your data back. No matter how many posts are made here it won't make any difference unless you all club together and raise the $100k peer1 wants to get access to the servers. I hope peer1 give Robert the benefit of the doubt and allow his customers 24 hours access to get the data back. A few similar incidents here in the UK and most end in tears. John
Posted by PortLayer, 10-05-2006, 12:33 PM
Perhaps Select and Omega customers need to get together and form a huge suit against Peer1. I'm no lawyer but I am sure this is extortion of some sort. I'm sure once they found out 100 or so people are getting together to sue them, they will be more than happy to AT THE VERY LEAST, hand over data. Assuming they haven't wiped the servers.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 12:38 PM
im down sueing these ***********!!! this is their ****in fault by not confirming and not following up with the 6 months debt! now we have to get ****ed over because of their fault!
Posted by reiteration, 10-05-2006, 12:40 PM
The problem is you have no contract with peer1 so are just the man on-the-street, without any rights over what peer1 do. I'm sure Select/Omega could somehow sue peer1, but that depends on the depth of their pockets.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 12:47 PM
Sigh.. I just called again trying to get the servers online.. Even offered to pay a little bit of money for the backups atleast.. They arent going to budge unless the total Bill is paid..
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 12:49 PM
Robert all I have is $1000, this is enough to get just a mysql backup with couple php files (
Posted by iRAWR, 10-05-2006, 12:50 PM
this is unreal. i can not believe what i am seeing. i feel so bad for you guys. hold it together guys and hope for any break you can get.
Posted by Tuddy, 10-05-2006, 01:01 PM
I am sure if you offered that to peer1 they would get you your data. As many people think I am against this issue I am not. Like I stated, this happened to me before. The only difference is that Peer1 has contact details. Why dont you all try calling them over and over. Might not be the most ethical way to deal with something but pulling the plug on you is not either. I am also sure that you should be able to arange to have your servers back if you pay peer1 and not any reseller or sub reseller. After all, its a business. But as much as I can see nobody deserves this, these server deals were too amazing. if you have data that you are willing to pay $1000 for, why chose a new company over an established company? more to the point, why did you not make backups of this data. I cannot believe that people who claim to have been on the serves for only a week or so have their only copy on their sites.
Posted by Karri, 10-05-2006, 01:05 PM
They won't. I have tried. We are not the account holders on record and they say they can not legally give access to the machines to any third party. Even if we can prove the data is ours and we own it, our contract is with select vps, not Peer1. We are not their customers so their opinion is they basically owe us nothing.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 01:08 PM
I know it was my dumbass who didnt get backup, but I had a bad situation here, I was changin 4 servers around, and I had no idea such a thing would ever happen to me! Anyways yes I amd willing to pay $1000, even more as I much as I can. I've contact these ******** and they dont answer. Robert please call them up again and tell them about me at least, Im willing to pay this much to get a backup. What the **** do they want? $1000 for just a quick ****in backup is enough! Please Robert either you call them and tell them about my offer, or pm me their number wesley or who ever is in charge of this mess and I'll deal with them directly. Please Robert I'm loosing my 1 year worth of 24/7 work here
Posted by Tuddy, 10-05-2006, 01:14 PM
Do not ask peer1 to give you anything, offer then the "deal" that if this is not resolved due to the debt not being paid, (of no fault of your own), could they keep the server online and you will pay THEM the monthly fee for their services. When angelnetworkz did their magic, TMS allowed customers to carry on as long as the payment and new "contract/agreement" was made with them. Like i said, Peer1 is a company that sells servers. So ask them if they will allow you to rent the server fromn them as oposed the formating them. once they are formated, they see it as theirs again. they will not let you do this now as this issue is not going to be resolved and they cannot do anything untill it is, however you can try and stop your data from getting lost.
Posted by Tuddy, 10-05-2006, 01:16 PM
Also, what do you mean they are not picking up? Are you calling the correct number? I suggest that everyone effected calls them untill their wishes are granted. If they start reciving hundreds of calls, im sure their views on how they treat you will change quickly. On a side note, is there no Peer1 workers on WHT that can reply to this thread?
Posted by lamans, 10-05-2006, 01:31 PM
Irpr if you get them on the phone tell them your server details and ask them to make a back up if they plan to format so when this mess is sorted at least you can get your data back then. Ask them not to distroy it but at least back it up if they wont give you access to it. Some how i have a feeling they wont let us carry on with the server even at a different rate they seem to be very bad at business and economics by hanging everyone out to dry and no communications. Its just affecting there image.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 01:32 PM
I offered him money to get a few servers online -- He wont get any servers online until the total amount is due Im going to run out for a bit.. I have a few meetings to go to.. I'll keep everyone updated with anything and everything I find out.. For Everyone who is requesting a refund, Please email Refunds@selectVPS.com with Your name, Your Paypal Transaction ID, The amount Paid, the Date Paid, and your Paypal Email Address. I will refund every AS SOON AS I CAN..
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 01:34 PM
I've called them and all they say is its not legal to do anything, Im willing to do anything to get a backup, send a hdd to them, go to their datacenter myself, pay them to get the server back online, whatever they offer I'll do just to get a backup. Those 2 websites are my whole 1 year worth of life!
Posted by layer0, 10-05-2006, 01:36 PM
platinumn, If you haven't already, contact a [good] lawyer - ASAP.
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 02:41 PM
Which Peer 1 is this? Toronto? NY? I have a close friend who works at Peer 1 but I need to know which DC. - Steve
Posted by Karri, 10-05-2006, 02:44 PM
Seems to be mostly Miami and some Atalanta.
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 02:49 PM
Well nvm than. Come on.. Any reasonable person would not delete OUR data because it is ours. We fell under this scam.. So any reasonable DC would finally get that and put our data up for atleast 24 hours. - Steve
Posted by DJArkive, 10-05-2006, 02:51 PM
Robert, First off Im sorry this is happening to you. Its a shame that there has to be people like this in this world who have no respect for anyone or have a concience (sp?) about anything they do in life. My opinion at this point is that of layer0. There is no way you are going to be able to resolve this yourself. Phone call after phone call is going to do nothing as peer 1 is just runing their business based on their policies. You need to get a strong lawyer to get letters out to Keith and Peer 1. Letters to Peer 1 stating that you are looking to take this to court and that it is their responsibility to preserve all data as it can and will be used as evidence. Peer 1 I would think is not stupid enough to format the drives right now. The reason why is, if they do they have nothing to hold over you head. They know a formated server is no good to you and then they just have a collection action aginst whoever is the account holders. Once again this is a shame that something like this can happen to so many good people. I hope that it can get resolved. I would strongly suggest you contact a lawyer ASAP.
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-05-2006, 02:52 PM
Those of us that have business data on these servers that are essentially being held "hostage", we have to make the business decision on how much that data is worth. At this point, the data is lost and under the control of Peer 1 as it is their hardware. In order to protect ourselves and our data, we would need to ask a court to declare an injunction against Peer 1 compelling them not to do anything with 3rd party data while the legal limbo exists. If the court agrees, it would be a criminal act by Peer 1 to do anything contrary to the court injunction. Of course, this would require lawyer and court filing fees, so the expense of this needs to outweigh the costs of the legal fees. Possibly economies of scale may work if several people want to get together and pursue a joint case. Of course, I am not a lawyer, so this is just speculation by me. I do not believe we can hold Peer 1 liable for any business losses due to the disconnection of the site and the loss of business not being online may cause. However, I do believe they can be held liable for data destruction since they are in possession of another parties "business" property, which they have no ownership interest in, nor do they have any contracts with the owners of that property that gives them a collateral interest in that property against any monies or contracts they may have for the leasing of the server.
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-05-2006, 04:49 PM
A partial refund????? WTF, I lost everything. What the hell is a partial refund going to do. Peer1 does not even want to resume service at a higher rate. They don't want my money period. This is a poor business decision. They are going to get nothing, and people who are willing to pay for service (even sign a year contract) are not being granted any service. Call this guy, Jesus Lopez. 305-717-6628 Last edited by HeadNucleon; 10-05-2006 at 04:52 PM.
Posted by vistaserver, 10-05-2006, 04:51 PM
Strictly from a legal perspective, since I've been down this road many, many times: in the event that Keith was the owner of the account at Peer1, all of the resold clients posting here have absolutely no authority. Peer1 does not have a contract with you, so they would not care at all about your content. In their eyes, the content of each of those servers would be Keith's, not his resold clients. Not to mention, in a company as large as that, they will without a doubt take the view of "these servers belong to Peer1, not the client". The client is just renting space, so if Keith hasn't paid the bill, Peer1 has every right to refuse service and rotate that hardware back into use so that they're making money on it. If you were in their shoes, would you let a rack full of servers sit idle when you could be making money on them? Is that a profitable business model?
Posted by WebhostingAsia, 10-05-2006, 04:57 PM
Legal battle will not gonna give you your data. Peer1 will not hold any hdd unfomatted they have to hire all boxes again as they know they will not gonna get $98k from selectvps ever. Why they will let their rackspace waste .... stop dreaming guys i have already ordered new box and trying to collect data from clients those who got backup and collecting abuses and threats those who dont have backup. Just hope for refund thats it.
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-05-2006, 05:18 PM
My point exactly, but they don't want my money. Offered 25K for one server...they don't care.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 05:34 PM
I meant to post this before I left my house earlier (Now, I'm at a computer lab close to my college).. Wesley has advised me of a possible deal that we can come to.. If we come to terms tonight, I will have servers back up to migrate the data / information to other servers.. So, Their is a *possibility* that I can have the servers back online soon to get the data off of them -- I cant promise it at this point, but I am working very hard to get the servers back online to get everyone atleast their data. I have received a few refunds and I will begin to process them once I get home tonight (around 9:30PM CST -- GMT -6) -- I will refund all the funds which I still have (Im going to take Keith to court over the $4500+ that he owes me.. -- Win or Loose, Im going to repay everyone; The refunds will happen on a FIRST COME FIRST SERVE BASIS) Thank You,
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 05:37 PM
Robert do whatever you can to get it back, I swear if you do it for us we wont leave you alone man, I will personally help you as much as I can, just come up with a solution for backup
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 05:39 PM
Im trying my best -- Im expecting a call around 5pm and then a conference call around 8:30-9:00 (hopefully)..
Posted by WireNine, 10-05-2006, 06:03 PM
I would recommend using a backup provider such as bytefortress.com or bqbackup.com to keep off-site backups of your data. You can setup nightly rsync backups on your servers, this way you would not be in this situation again in the future. Always keep backups.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 06:05 PM
thanks for the info man, I know im in a deep s*it because of my own fault, but who would think of such a mess! too late now, Im just sitting here praying for a solution
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-05-2006, 06:09 PM
http://www.dedicatedhosting.com/aboutus/tos.php These are Peer 1 legal terms of service. Obviously, this agreement is between them and whomever directly leased the servers from them. We are not a party to that agreement. And I cannot tell right now if SelectVPS or "Kevin" is officially the person who entered into this agreement with Peer 1. The TOS have provisions that applies to "customer content" as well as provisions regarding contract termination. It appears that Peer 1 was required to provide reasonable written notice to their customer. We will probably never know if this happened and if the written notice did happen, if we would have been told so that we can protect our data. Second, the TOS clearly removes any liability for the customer data when it comes to hardware failures, network issues, and other such non-intentional incidents. But the TOS is silent as to what their liability for "customer content" is for cases of contract termination. I'm sure if they provided reasonable notice, they can simply pull the plug and destroy the data. But if they provided no notice to their direct customers (the resellers) and then pulled the plug, I personally believe Peer 1 would be subject to significant liability for "willfully and intentionally" destroying "customer content". There is nothing in this contract that grants Peer 1 collateral or any sort of rights to the "customer content" due to non-payment of fees due, other than thier right to terminate the contract, with proper notice, when the contract is breeched.
Posted by Theventor, 10-05-2006, 06:18 PM
The only problem is, that Peer1 is acting on Robert as soon as Keith switched the informations to Roberts.
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 06:18 PM
Very nice work. Well than lets get them on that. But still the data falls under us. So we SHOULD be able to get our data back. - Steve
Posted by lamenoob142, 10-05-2006, 06:35 PM
Totally feel sorry for all you guys. It sux that the little guy always has to pay for the big guys mistake. From what i see, omega and select vps made a poor judgement call in going along with Keith. Hopefully this will be a lesson to everyone reading this thread that if its too good to be true, it probably is. Now about you guys trying to get your data back or just some uptime to recover data from peer1, i highly doubt that will happen. Like others have posted, Peer 1 is out of money on this and won't release these servers until the bill is paid and can't legally discuss this issue with anyone that is not on the account name. The truth of the matter is, the bad guy in all this is Keith. He tricked omega and select into signing all those TOS forms that should have been signed by him. And also by pre paying for all those servers. Also , you can't expect for Peer 1 to babysit everyone. This isn't highschool where your teachers guide you through eveything, this is the real world you are accountable for the choices you make, and you pay for your mistakes. It sux that the end client has to suffer but thats how it is. Peer 1 is in the business of making money, Omega vps is int he business of making money, select vps is in the business of making money. That's the bottom line. I would also assume that legally nothing can be done until the bill is paid. If there is some sort of lawsuit, I don't think Peer 1 would be the best target. The truth of the matter is that everyone here got screwed by this Keith guy. That is the guy that you should be going after. And if Peer 1 can't go after him, i am sure Omega and SelectVPS can. Good luck to all you guys. But don't hold your breath on getting your severs online for any ammount of time, because it most likely will not happen. The noob
Posted by amravit, 10-05-2006, 07:00 PM
i don t know i payed till now 500$ to my clients refunds for resellers payed per year i cant find away to explain that our data center screwd us they want there backup and i dont know how to get it iam f.... up amr
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 07:05 PM
As much as you speak is true. It is not about data now. It is about the right thing to do. We are clients. We all pay our bills. So how can a datacenter take OUR data and trash it because they have a bef with the main person in charge. This is not just some peoples data but businesses. These are businesses and mine included. Loosing out on this is a lesson learned but I have had problems before with them (2 weeks to setup VPS for example) I stuck with them because of the good reviews and the fact they told the truth about what was happening. 2 weeks later I wake up to find my business website is down.. After trying to backup last night but my backup providers FTP was down. So I was unable to backup.. I said.. There is always tomorrow.. I wake up to find.. Tomorrow has not come yet. 24 hours is all we ask. Let us get our data. Than go after them. Is that too much to ask for? What are they loosing since we have made it clear we are probably not going to pay. Or Robert is. I have been with some DC's and I know most of their TOS in this matter hold the data as the customers. (As in the server owners) BUT most of them also say that if a chance that we get scammed, etc. They will provide a period of which the customers of the customers can get the remnants of their datas. Espically since these customers also have customers. - Steve
Posted by FHDave, 10-05-2006, 07:10 PM
I have never read such Terms before. Which companies offer/have such terms? Good luck to everybody ...
Posted by Bios, 10-05-2006, 07:51 PM
I didn't see much point in a refund as I paid for a promo month. Which I never got so was given 2 months which never got to either because this happened.
Posted by vistaserver, 10-05-2006, 08:00 PM
But, correct me if I'm wrong, you're not paying the datacenter. You're paying Keith...or another reseller. If the datacenter, in this case Peer1, wasn't seeing any of the money you were paying, where's their incentive to give you any service whatsoever? Also, all of you keep saying you want your data...if there were this many servers involved, how is Peer1 supposed to know what data is yours, and what is another person's? Just trust your word on it? If that's the case, I'll gladly call and say all the data is mine and steal everyone's sites...who'd know the difference?
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 08:02 PM
man what the heck are you talking about! first of all Im offering them big junk of money just for a quick backup! second of all each server has a IP address, and root password! on top of that everybody can verify their content on the server!
Posted by KeithDidIt4Real, 10-05-2006, 08:06 PM
Food 4 thought: Yes, the data belongs to the customer.... unfortunately you are not the customer - Keith is. And it seems that Keith didn't pay... Another thought: Since Peer1 would surely go after this Keith guy, they would keep the data for evidence. It would be stupid for them to just delete it. At least they would keep the drives...
Posted by Dub, 10-05-2006, 09:01 PM
Hrm.. I guess you are right.. Time for me to start over. - Steve
Posted by FHDave, 10-05-2006, 09:42 PM
Backup is your friend ... 1. If the data is important, make sure you keep your own backup. 2. Does SelectVPS advertise any backup service (daily, weekly, etc). If they did, it does not matter what happens to the server now. They should be able to provide you with the backup.
Posted by irpr, 10-05-2006, 10:10 PM
Any new updates Robert?
Posted by nick125, 10-05-2006, 10:16 PM
I wish SelectVPS the best of luck. Personally, if I were SelectVPS, I would be suing for way more then $5,000+. I would be suing to have your name cleared with Peer-1 and damages (including lost customers, time, losses caused to your customers, attorney fees, and damages to your company name). I think Peer-1 was slightly negligence for letting the account go six months past due. I really wish you guys the best of luck.
Posted by GoingYard, 10-05-2006, 10:21 PM
Hey Guys I kept quiet on the sidelines, I just bought and paid for a server with Robert last week, today I put a dispute with paypal and this is how Robert decides to anwer.... is was only $45.00 but this kinda tells how a person really is. Your seller has chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending communication with you and escalating to a claim, the seller is asking PayPal to investigate the case and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal will review any communication you may have had in the Resolution Center. Thank you for contacting PayPal. We have begun our investigation of the following transaction:Transaction Date: Sep 26, 2006 Transaction Amount: -$45.00 USD Your Transaction ID: 4YN07674WS181414N Seller's Transaction ID: 08M89114TG9757245 Case Number: PP-207-297-348 Seller's Name: Robert Maltby Seller's Email: <>@cox.net Last edited by westcan; 10-06-2006 at 01:34 AM.
Posted by ayksolutions, 10-05-2006, 10:41 PM
Paypal won't give you any money back as it's not a tangible good. Besides, I'd cut Robert some slack. He's got enough on his plate right now without you flaming him on here and trying to make him out to be a bad guy. Have you tried contacting him directly for a refund, like he requested all of his clients to do? Last edited by westcan; 10-06-2006 at 01:34 AM.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 10:51 PM
We do not advertise a backup, however, we did have a weekly backup that was stored @ peer1
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 10:57 PM
DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED?!? I have paid Keith over $4,000.00 (and I can provide PROOF of this)..I paid him just about every week.. If EVERYONE Filed a claim VIA Paypal, when I do not have the funds to cover it, My account is going to get LOCKED/FROZEN.. How am I to repay people back with out having access to paypal, which is my only source e-business? I used my personal account with this.. Even though you filed a claim, the item isnt tangible, thus meaning Paypal will most likely decide the claim in my favor -- I am going to pay everyone back.. Those who have emailed me like I asked will get paid back in the order I received.. I do no post your information publicly and I ask that you do not publish mine here either.. Thank You, Last edited by westcan; 10-06-2006 at 01:34 AM.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 11:03 PM
Wow, I just logged into paypal and here is what one of my disputes that I held against Keith said: I never bought the account from Keith
Posted by IrdHost, 10-05-2006, 11:06 PM
So Robert, your call with PEER (sux)1????
Posted by GoingYard, 10-05-2006, 11:10 PM
You had a choice to pay the claim, you chose the low road, thereby I posted the reply from paypal. I will get a refund from paypal, I pay $1000's each month with paypal, they always refund money if you don't get good's or service's. I could care less about the $45.00, it is the point. BTW I write 100- 150k in checks each week to vendor's, who cares. I signed up could not get support, never heard back in over 3 days of submitting tickets, the whole situation looks like who is scamming who. I am sorry but enough is enough.......
Posted by adam, 10-05-2006, 11:16 PM
Actually no, your wrong. PayPal DOES NOT refund for intangible items. Go read there TOS.
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-05-2006, 11:20 PM
any updates?
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 11:23 PM
GoingYard, I didnt choose the low road -- I chose the road that I felt is going to better help me in this situation.. as I stated, I WILL RE-PAY EVERYONE BACK even if it is OUT OF MY OWN POCKET! Im not loaded with funds to just say poof and instantly refund everyone.. I have to work for my money therefore, It will take time to issue a complete (or partial) refund to everyone. I hope you understand now.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-05-2006, 11:28 PM
Im still waiting on the phone call -- Im guessing they are waiting for tomorrow..
Posted by TCP/IP Warrior, 10-05-2006, 11:48 PM
GoingYard.... You are out of line posting Roberts personal email address on here specially at a time like this. At least let the man try to swim before you throw him a heavy stone. I sure hope a Moderator (anon-e-mouse where are you??? ) will remove that email address and soon. On another note, all that are affected should read this thread (http://webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=552599). It's not much and it probably won't help much but it's a start. Good luck to all!
Posted by EuroVPS/Director, 10-05-2006, 11:54 PM
How big of a company is Peer1? Are they in a stable (positive) financial condition?
Posted by Coolraul, 10-05-2006, 11:57 PM
Peer1 is big and stable. They own mulitple datacenters in Canada and the US. The issue is that this reseller owed $400k + as far as we have been told.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-06-2006, 12:00 AM
The thing that gets me the most, How do you allow a Reseller get over $400,000 in debt and not even have his REAL Name?!? Keith signed up as "Keith Daddezio" but thats not his name.. His name is "Keith Mansfield" -- I have MoneyGram receipts to show this..
Posted by EuroVPS/Director, 10-06-2006, 12:00 AM
I browsed through their website and it looks dilapidated. Check out their blog. It's not good business to let a client get in so deep 100K+, it's only obvious they would never collect. I see it as highly unlikely for any data to be recovered as the servers are most likely already reformatted & sold to other end users.
Posted by PortLayer, 10-06-2006, 12:03 AM
Robert, perhaps you should include a link to this thread in the paypal dispute. It should clear up a lot of the questions, including testimony from OTHER parties that are confirming his con-artist nature. It should also point out he hasn't even tried to defend himself here. Don't let him get away with lies.
Posted by EuroVPS/Director, 10-06-2006, 12:08 AM
Like I said, it's unprofessional from Peer1's side to let this get to this point. The servers should have been cut off at 45 days, not 180 days. At least at 45 days the damage would have been much less. BTW. To those that experienced true p0wn3age due to actions of other irresponsible persons, get yourselves a nice shiny new Seagate SATA and download your files to it once a week. You can get 80GB'ers for nothing nowadays. I recently lost my entire music collection and it was a very very painful experience. The silence during my shift kills me. I can't imagine what it would feel like to lose an entire server due to some other idiot's negligence.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-06-2006, 12:11 AM
1.) He is "Banned" from here, or so he said a few months ago.. I questioned him and said "If your getting killer deals, why arent you posting them on WHT" and he said he was banned for having too many accounts.. 2.) If I included a link -- Im toast if Paypal looked into it.. 3.) I spent alot amount of time going after paperwork today.. Wesley @ Peer1 made my day when he called me at 1:00pm cst... He gave me some good news however I havent heard back since.. I plan on furthering my investigation and contacting the appropriate people about getting Keith behind bars where he belongs.. -- he said he just got a new car.. so I bet he is on the run now.. My Phone calls (to keith) are ignored now.. Just Great!
Posted by IrdHost, 10-06-2006, 12:14 AM
Nice, if they have DCs in Canada, i can sue them from here and here in province of quebec the law protect customer about this situation... i will contact a lawyer tomorrow and ask if i can request a injonction from here and get my data!!
Posted by Directiz, 10-06-2006, 12:18 AM
Well my company has also been scammed after buying 35 servers from Keith Mansfield. But I was in talks with Jessie who works for peer1 who is a close friend of Keiths... or so he said. Jessie not only told me that everything was legit and that I shouldnt worry but also encouraged me to buy the servers.... so I do feel peer 1 is also responsible for this.... while I had these servers selectvps or Andrea was one of my clients for a very short amount of time.. till Keith stepped in and pulled the servers I had rented them and charged them a fee telling them that I was going out of business and if they did not pay then there servers where going offline... correct me if Im wrong guys.. but after this happen I had called peer1 telling them about Keith and my disappointment and worried that the servers where not legitimate and that he was scamming me and others... peer1 never took any actions even knowing he was doing this.... so I feel that peer1 was just as much responsible for this as Keith was... after all it was peer1 employee that help push these servers on me. I already have a meeting setup with a lawyer on Tuesday and Im willing to come together with others to fight this matter... all I really want is my data back... Im about to loose my web hosting company that I have built over the past 6 years... peer1 doesnt seam to care much about that but the least they could do is allow me to pay what ever it takes to get my clients moved off the server to a different server...they dont need to help destroy my business any more... is it too much to ask that a big company show alittle respect an understanding to the smaller company instead of alowing there clients to destroy so many smaller companys... i guess peer1 has alot to gain over this... i'm sure some of my clients will move to them... nothing i can do to stop that since there helping to put me out of business
Posted by adam, 10-06-2006, 12:22 AM
wow, sorry to hear directiz. If there is a guy at Peer1 who is a friend of Keith's and was helping push his scams then he should be arrested for fraud as well. Someone needs to keep bringing up the point to Peer1 that a guy that worked there is involves as well.
Posted by WebhostingAsia, 10-06-2006, 12:23 AM
Paypal dont refund for services. Dont aspect refund from them but ya it will help freezing selectvps's account which wont help you. Again friends dont wait for data no one is going to have anything all must have been formatted & resold as they know selectvps will never gonna pay around 100K. Think why they let their 100 server idel which may have given them around $170 daily.
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-06-2006, 12:28 AM
let us know if you need any additional plaintiffs for any legal actions. I think the most important thing is to get an injunction filed to protect the data on the servers until the legal issues can get worked out. But time is of the essence in this.
Posted by Directiz, 10-06-2006, 12:34 AM
I tried to get in to see my lawyer today but lawyers are always too busy lol.... Tuesday is the earliest he could see me... hope my data stays on the server long enough to get one
Posted by Dub, 10-06-2006, 12:52 AM
I do not believe Peer 1 will delete the data. As much as they would probably like to just get there money and reformat and being all over. They will likly have to go through court and they know you will need the evidence.. Which lucky for us. Is our data. Plus they won't touch it over the Holiday weekend. - Steve
Posted by @Matt, 10-06-2006, 01:36 AM
Robert I wish you and the others the best for your companies. I can't believe someone would do something like this for the greed of money. I know God is looking down upon keith and deal with him as he pleases and I pray that God will be with you threw this time.
Posted by Directiz, 10-06-2006, 01:37 AM
man i wish i was hosting some websites for god ....
Posted by Directiz, 10-06-2006, 01:40 AM
i would like to see how many ppl are actualy affected by this... for me i can add 300+ clients to the list of sites that are down... anyone else got some numbers on there end
Posted by Dub, 10-06-2006, 02:04 AM
Well count me in.. Plus my 4 major websites. - Steve
Posted by irpr, 10-06-2006, 02:12 AM
I had 2 major sites running, And BTW Robert why did you refund my money? I've already told you that I dont want refund from you in this situation. Count on me for any help
Posted by herrfreebie, 10-06-2006, 03:40 AM
I had a managed VPS with 70GB space with WHM/Cpanel for 60$ per month at Selectvps, is it anyone who can offer me that?
Posted by reiteration, 10-06-2006, 05:49 AM
I doubt very much anyone will be able to come close to that price. I'm sure someone will be able to offer the exact same price, extact same VPS - and exactly the same position. If your business depends so much on your hosting then pay more for it and avoid situations like this. I'm sorry but you have no-one else to blame but yourself. Your expecting to drive a Ferrari for the price of a Ford.
Posted by pixelcop, 10-06-2006, 06:15 AM
I agree with reiteration. If hosting is important for you, you have to look for a fair price. After the problems with Dinix (who had been a well respected company here at WHT before being sold) when they were sold I went a step further and decided to go only with VPS or dedicated server companies that own their DC(s) like Liquidweb or Servint. But I don't need more than 1-2 VPS or dedicated servers...
Posted by irpr, 10-06-2006, 09:34 AM
Robert any updates man?
Posted by IrdHost, 10-06-2006, 10:17 AM
My big problem is that we have backup of our customers data on second drive of our server that PEER1 put offline ... We have 300 sites offline that is 70% of our business... Last edited by IrdHost; 10-06-2006 at 10:21 AM.
Posted by ALS, 10-06-2006, 10:30 AM
My problem is not so much not having a backup I do for everything except my account which was the servers main account. There was a problem moving it to the new server with its databases so it was zipped and then opened to transfer it in full. That zip file is just sitting there for me to grab on the server as I was going to get the night before the servers were taken down but I didn't for some reason and I waited to just before they were only to get knocked offline before even doing so. So close but yet so far...........
Posted by irpr, 10-06-2006, 10:34 AM
ALS I have the same problem man, I have a backup, but its stored in the server
Posted by reiteration, 10-06-2006, 12:23 PM
Your backup plans have a serious flaw :-( Never store your backups on the same drive/server.
Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-06-2006, 12:52 PM
Get yourself a lawyer. Looks like Peer1 have been scammed by this Keith chap and now they're coming after you for his debt. They're trying to make you liable for Keith's debt.
Posted by utropicmedia-karl, 10-06-2006, 01:17 PM
agreed. Reading this thread it is obvious that the problem was the rate that was charged. bottom line - if you do not pay enough to keep the hosting business around, your business will suffer eventually. there are many people in the hosting offers forum that are offering up temporary space free of charge - a wonderful gesture.
Posted by irpr, 10-06-2006, 01:40 PM
Robert please let us know if there is anything new Last edited by irpr; 10-06-2006 at 01:47 PM.
Posted by Karri, 10-06-2006, 01:55 PM
It is a very nice gesture, and I am sure is greatly appreciated by all affected, but the stitch is the data we might want to host else where is being held hostage by Peer1. As soon as Peer1 tells us what we need to do to get what is ours off of their servers, we will get out of their lives and get on with ours. Heck, I would be in the car with an external drive and be there in a couple of hours if that is what it took.
Posted by irpr, 10-06-2006, 02:01 PM
Iwould do anything to get my data
Posted by Directiz, 10-06-2006, 02:20 PM
i'm here in canada... i have no problem hoping on a plan to go to peer1 one to get my data... i'll do what ever it takes.. well aside from paying keiths 200k bill
Posted by WireNine, 10-06-2006, 02:35 PM
Your data was not in Canada, you can go to the peer1 data center in Canada but it would not help you get your data.
Posted by Karri, 10-06-2006, 02:39 PM
hence the part where he says he will hop on a plane to get the data? (I guess you could take that to mean he will fly to somewhere in Canada, I took it to mean he would fly to Atlanta or Miami or which ever datacenter his is at.) My data is in Miami, I am in Florida, it is a car ride down there for me.
Posted by tical, 10-06-2006, 02:51 PM
For that matter, why not show up at their facility, find a manager, and offer him $100 cash for an hour or two alone with your server in a room somewhere? Sorry to hear about everyone's loss.
Posted by Directiz, 10-06-2006, 02:55 PM
OK i just got off the phone with peer1.... and they will be putting the servers back on for me i just have to send them the ips of my servers and all my details.... also pay for the cost of the servers as well.. but the good news is.. they will be putting them back online wish you all the best of luck...
Posted by cpecss, 10-06-2006, 03:13 PM
i would really like my data as it has updated version of my site
Posted by cpecss, 10-06-2006, 03:15 PM
any idea when the refund will be here? thanks
Posted by lamans, 10-06-2006, 05:09 PM
Hiya Whats the story here they are going to turn it on so you can get your data or they are going to turn your service on again please explain... Thanks
Posted by amravit, 10-06-2006, 05:17 PM
please explain how did u manage to get ur server online amr
Posted by WireNine, 10-06-2006, 05:31 PM
I misread the post, thank you for pointing that out.
Posted by Mivo, 10-06-2006, 05:32 PM
Hope this will lead into something more positive. Although previously Peer1 had said that doing this would be illegal, but it seems they're opening up. Paging Robert!
Posted by irpr, 10-06-2006, 05:33 PM
Robert, Please give us an update here
Posted by Coolraul, 10-06-2006, 05:40 PM
I don't think anyone has actually got an agreement to get anything back online. Right now its with Peer1's legal department to review.
Posted by armatik, 10-06-2006, 10:06 PM
This issue is being brought up, like said above, all over the place. I was lead here by a person who was selling a server that got scammed by this guy, and had a link to this thread on his site (steam-servers.com). I'll help spread the word though, maybe get you guys some support. Take care. Last edited by P-nut; 10-07-2006 at 07:17 AM. Reason: remove reference to own website
Posted by ihostdev, 10-06-2006, 11:09 PM
Thats really odd as this keith guys company is called steam powered servers. Wonder if keith stole the comapny name from this guys business. Last edited by P-nut; 10-07-2006 at 07:17 AM.
Posted by concerned2006, 10-06-2006, 11:32 PM
Well all I can say is this is typical of this individual. However I know exactly where this person is if you all want to try and make contact so he can answer for himself He uses ventrillo and is always here at this location: enervate.steampoweredservers.com Port:2079 He is listed under the name "Keith" and as another member said his name is Keith Mansfield. Good Luck to you all this is a horrible act and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-06-2006, 11:36 PM
Is there any news on the possible offer hinted at yesterday regarding the ability for us to get our data? This is the most important issue at this time. What happed to the two phone calls from yesterday? Was there any follow up effort today?
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-06-2006, 11:51 PM
I didnt receive any phone calls from them yesterday and I called them 3-4times today -- No response or answer from them
Posted by Cirtex, 10-07-2006, 12:37 AM
This situation does seem very difficult for all parties involved :\ I really hope you'll be able to get in touch with them during the weekends. Good luck Last edited by westcan; 10-07-2006 at 09:13 PM.
Posted by Directiz, 10-07-2006, 04:33 AM
sorry everyone... i have been very busy with clients to get back to the board... but some info you guys where looking for from me mr. lopez at peer1 had me send in all my details and server ip's of the ones i rented. they told me that i would have to pay about $600 to $800 per server the price is not offical yet and is only for the type of servers specs i am renting. i was also told that we dont need to worrie about the data they are not erasing anything. (right now anyways... stay on top of peer1 guys...) as of right now... Mr.Lopaz is just waiting for the ok from peer1's legal department to turn the servers back on.... and i'm guessing the only servers that will be turned back on is for the ppl that will pay for it.. as well as the companys that rented the servers from keith... but it will be at a price. (hope they change there mind with the price).. for all the end users... you will have to deal directly with the company you geting hosting with... i think all the calls to peer1 has help out alot... and we all should keep calling everyday till everyone last person has there data back companys and there clients. if anyone would like to contact me please send email to info@techwayhosting.com
Posted by herrfreebie, 10-07-2006, 04:53 AM
I had wrote 2 times to refunds@selectvps.com but I had not get any answer or refund yet, why??
Posted by Directiz, 10-07-2006, 05:07 AM
give these companys some time to deal with this major problem... i'm sure they a extreamly busy dealing with all there clients and peer1 .... i know i am having to deal with over 300+ clients that are very upset and all asking for refunds... it's only been a few days... but dont get me wrong.. in the webhosting world thats a life time to be offline... but please have some understanding and wait a few more days to let some of these problems get fixed
Posted by Wojjie, 10-07-2006, 05:40 AM
Well, I just spent a considerable amount of time reading most of the posts contained in the 14 pages of this thread. I decided to summarize what information I was able to get from it. First post gives a good summary Here are extra details I got that are not covered in the first post (I apologize if I did a poor job. I started getting real tired midway through, and probably left out some interesting details): platinumn23 (Robert) owns SelectVPS, which was reselling servers he obtained from Keith. He was the biggest client Keith has, and therefore was given access to the Peer1 account for support purposes. Whenever Robert needed more servers, he would go to Keith to get his order filled, and pay Keith via PayPal. Then one day, when Peer1 finally decided enough was enough, and wanted the unpaid bills to be paid for, they shut down the servers and came into contact with Robert. Peer1 then proceeded to threaten legal action against Robert, who was stunned by the news. It appeared that Keith had given Peer1 false information and somehow managed to move Robert as the primary contact. The amount due to Peer1 was $98,000 (or 6 months of fees), and till this amount is paid for, Peer1 decided not to give access to any of the servers. Robert has been to this date trying to provide everyone with refunds, at which some people have decided to help him out by requesting that no refund be sent to them. If you want to request a refund, details can be found here. He has also tried to file a claim against Keith, at which Keith's reply was blaming Robert, and stateing that Robert bought him out. Some have said that Keith made a run for it, one person says he can be found on a ventrilo server and that his real name is Keith Mansfield. As for Robert, he has been looking to fight this whole matter with Peer1, and possibly seeking legal counsel against Peer1 and Keith. There has been some news of Robert ironing out a deal with Peer1 to get servers back up so clients can obtain their data, and one individual managed to strike a deal to bring his servers back online in the amount of $600-800 per server. Lastly, please stop posting about how you want your back up or your refund. I have seen this thread become 14 pages mostly due to the same topic of backups and refunds being brought up constantly. Robert is trying to get the servers back up so you can obtain your data, so just check this thread regularly for news. As for refunds, read this post and follow it. Also be patient, as he is probably swarmed with work.
Posted by Wojjie, 10-07-2006, 06:03 AM
I just have a few comments on this whole situation. - I have seen similar scenerios in the past, and no matter how many times it happens, it is bound to repeat itself (just with a different spin) It is unfortunate that the victims got caught up in this, and it is understandable the urge to get the best deal and hope for the best. - Everyone of us could have ended up the victims, given the right scenerio and the right time. - if the deal sounds good, ask questions and research it. If you fall victim twice to something similar, then shame on you. - I would of liked more details being told about Keith. What type of person was he? How did he interact with you? Did he appear to be young? older? business like? - I also do not understand people's need to claim a PayPal dispute. It appears that people are too impatient to go through the other means of getting a refund and giving some time for it to resolve. I always get annoyed when people file a complaint, as I would of happily given them the refund if they asked me, waited for my reply, and was honest about the whole situation. - One thing I have learned over the years is that if your happy with your current service, and it works, why move to save a bit of money? I have spent lots of time testing servers in various datacenters, and trying to get the biggest bang for my buck, that in the end I realized that the best bang is often not the cheapest. I wish you all the best of luck, and I will try to keep up to date with this thread. I also would like to help anyone I can, in any way I can. Last edited by Wojjie; 10-07-2006 at 06:07 AM.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-07-2006, 11:23 AM
You are a bit off but mostly right. Directiz is NOT a customer of Select(Robert). He like us is a cusotmer of this reseller Keith. Robert does not have a deal to bring servers back online and to be honest having spoken to Directiz, Robert and Jesus Lopez all, I think Directiz is being a bit optimistic. Jesus is not at all saying he is waiting for an OK from legal. I am not clear that he is in support of them being turned back on in this manner but hes a sales guy. What he said specifically to me is we have to wait for the process to take its course. I wanted to correct this as people may think if you contact Jesus that he will somehow magically start to work on getting servers back online. Another correction, the amount in total owed by Keith is over 400k. The 98k is what they are saying they are holding Robert responsible for for the servers he had online. This is given that Keith they now know is a deadbeat. The approach Omega has taken is to pay everyone of our clients money back. That has been done (one person is saying they didnt receive it but I am following up with that). If Peer1 gets the servers back online then we will pay for either a temporary access or permanent reconnect of the boxes but my take is that all customers should have the ability to find alternate hosting to get back online quickly if they so chose. The impatience and desire to do disputes is simple. There are people still from the Angelnetworkz saga that haven't received their refunds. People are lining up early believing that by being the first in, they have a better chance of getting their money back from Select and other companies. It isn't a case of Robert or anyone skipping on this or WANTING to deny refunds, he simply needs more time given decisions for payments and the timing of this happening. Both of our companies along iwith Directiz had just made payments to this guy Keith. Having dealt with Robert, he is not someone that is going to scam anyone. Of that i am sure.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-07-2006, 02:53 PM
I only have X Amount of funds in my Paypal, when I get Claims it locks my paypal account.. Once I am out of funds, everyone NOT Paid will have to wait.. Im doing the Refunds in the order that they were received.. I hope you can understand that.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-07-2006, 03:03 PM
Wesley did contact me over a possible deal.. he hasnt contacted me over the past 48hrs so Im now in the dark whether or not we can continue with that deal... I would love to continue with it as I would be able to focus my power towards Keith.
Posted by Wojjie, 10-07-2006, 03:25 PM
Thank you CoolRaul for the corrections, as I did feel certain details weren't adding up, and your clarifications helped me understand the situation even more. So from my understanding, people were paying Keith, and Keith was pocketing the money and not paying Peer1. He just racked up a huge debt to Peer1, who did not verify his credientials. Now my question is, how does Peer1 allow someone to sign up, obtain so many servers without paying a dime from day 1? I think Peer1 has no real leg to stand on when it comes to taking you to court, so I am thinking it is scare tactics. Then again, they may sue you even if they know they will lose, and just force you into debt from lawyer fees.
Posted by Dub, 10-07-2006, 04:00 PM
Defiantly good news. - Steve
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-07-2006, 04:43 PM
I have now refunded 7 of the 13 people requesting a refund -- My paypal account has funds locked in it, when they get unlocked, I can refund 2-3 more people..
Posted by PortLayer, 10-07-2006, 05:27 PM
So are you going to be able to refund those of us who payed credit card?
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-07-2006, 05:30 PM
Not sure if I can refund them from paypal -- if you paid us via paypal, I will refund it just like it was a regular payment -- for those who paid with a CC via our merchant account , they should get refunded today / tomorrow.. Thanks,
Posted by amravit, 10-08-2006, 12:00 AM
hello robet what is the steps to refund ,me i payed with my cc as you know amr
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-08-2006, 12:19 AM
As I said earlier, Im going to refund everyone there money -- When? I cant say.. Send me a email stating you want a refund (as I havent received one from you yet).. Please make sure to email me as I dont want to miss over you.. -> refunds@selectvps.com
Posted by amravit, 10-08-2006, 12:27 AM
ok man done
Posted by saran79, 10-08-2006, 04:17 AM
Hi Robert, You had refunded $4.45 only. That is nothing to me. I hav'nt used the VPS at all. I just bought on sep 23rd.. You guys didnt gave any access to the VPS for 10 days and at last the server went down.. Tell me when will you refund my remaining money? I met with huge loss now.
Posted by GuestUnknown, 10-08-2006, 11:34 PM
Keith's Phone #: (664) 420 2679
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-08-2006, 11:41 PM
That phone number is not even american
Posted by HostingFuze, 10-08-2006, 11:45 PM
What makes you say that ? Just put a +1 in front of it, and try to call (ps: you need long distance).
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-08-2006, 11:48 PM
Its American -- Its in Mississippi.. Atleast, thats where my Cell Phone bill points it to Saran79; As I said in the Refund Comments -- That was all I had left in my Paypal.. If I had more -- I would have sent more. As for everyone else -- Im out of money ATM -- I will pay each and everyone back the full pro-rated amount back... If I have sent you a Partial Payment, I intend on sending more. ---- Still no word from Peer1; So Im hoping they just wanted to take the weekend off ---- Thanks,
Posted by irpr, 10-08-2006, 11:51 PM
Robert please cotact them first thing in the morning, try to make a deal with them so we can get a backup
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-08-2006, 11:53 PM
I will Contact them ASAP -- I have a Daytime job that may conflict on when I can contact them.. I'll be back home around 5:30pm CST (GMT -6) and I can give any updates when I get back home.. Thanks,
Posted by xanadu2112, 10-09-2006, 12:10 AM
What a nightmare for you all!!!
Posted by vnsg, 10-09-2006, 01:44 AM
i hope i can get backup as soon as possible,i have 2 servers with selectvps and 1 of them host 2 community with around 70 thousand members,it is a nightmare to me if they loose their db.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-09-2006, 08:18 PM
I know this isnt the BEST News but I did hear from them today.. I was told that *possibly* tomorrow I will find out more information on the data/servers.. I was told that NO ONE Is getting there servers/services put back online UNTIL Peer1 makes their decision tomorrow (or this week).. Not even if you offered $5,000.00 for your data alone.. They arent turning the servers back online UNTIL the amount is paid in full.. Thanks, Robert
Posted by Dave W, 10-09-2006, 10:47 PM
This is a very sad turn of events. It would make sense for peer1 to turn this around and make something out of it, obviously they are not going to get their 100k because selectvps does not have the capital to cover such an expense. At the very least peer1 could turn around and (buy) selectvps's customers and apply the amount of the sale to the debt then turn around and profit from the retail clients which pay a larger amount than their wholesale clients. Plat, if you dont mind. how many clients had dedicated servers with you? I am not sure if you or peer has though about the option of selling the clients to satisfy the debt but if there are enough clients will to stay it might be worth it. Lawsuits are always a 50/50 shot as most people dont pay and there is no foolproof way to collect the debt.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-09-2006, 10:52 PM
We had roughly 103 total servers (with the 100 more ordered) -- Omega took 35 and we had the rest (68 ish).. Of my 68 servers I had right at 50 of them in use.. ~8 VPS Node Servers (4-5 WITh VPS Customers on them).. and the rest were Dedicated Customers.. I could go thru my ModernBill and view who had what and how many servers were really taken/ in use but I havent gone thru them yet.. I do intend on doing this and presenting this with my attorney.. Thanks,
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-09-2006, 11:29 PM
Keith just Offerred to repay me the money he owes me (half in 1-2weeks) and the rest by Nov. 31st... I only wish this is going to happen =\
Posted by Mivo, 10-09-2006, 11:38 PM
Did he tell you Nov. 31st? Be careful, there is no such date.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-09-2006, 11:39 PM
Im sorry -- I meant Nov. 30th* -- and Yes he said it.. so Im going to hold him to it..
Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-09-2006, 11:41 PM
You're running a host with 100+ servers and you're not a full-time host? Sorry to interject, but that threw me a bit.
Posted by irpr, 10-09-2006, 11:42 PM
So Robert if peer1 is not going to release any data, how come DirectiZ got his servers back? This is really pissing me off here, Why are they taking revenge on us?
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-09-2006, 11:45 PM
He didn't get his servers back.. and if he did, I'll be extremely mad... They told me "NO ONE is getting their servers back online until the FULL Amount is paid" So.. I think he was offered the same thing that i was and said his servers were back prematurely..
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-09-2006, 11:47 PM
I was going to put my 2-weeks notice in this week as I noticed we needed more of a FULL-TIME Support help.. We had ~68 servers at the time... once the 100 came in, that was going to be the icing on the cake and I was going to leave my job..
Posted by The3bl, 10-10-2006, 02:12 AM
Is that he 98k or what ever it is owing to peer1?
Posted by irpr, 10-10-2006, 02:36 AM
Well if he did I'll be extremely mad too, but I haven't seen him denying it so he probably got it, and there is no difference between us and him, so if peer1 came to a deal with him, they better do the same for everybody, cuz Im really getting to a point to follow up this case by legal actions! They have no right to do this to us and give some servers back and hold some for evidence!
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-10-2006, 03:30 AM
Screw PEER1. If they are not willing to work with people like us, don't ever give them your business. Tell others of your FANTASTIC EXPERIENCE with them. We have a 28 servers hosted with them directly for our high profile clients. We are planning to move them to a more flexible and customer service friendly provider. I will never do business with PEER1! I am sure $24000 p/m is not going to hurt them, but this is my way of retaliating... PS. I will probably never get my data back on my personal server, even though I offered them money. They are extorting us, knowing full well they are not going to get their money back... My customers are really pissed. Last edited by dollar; 10-10-2006 at 06:42 AM.
Posted by HeadNucleon, 10-10-2006, 03:34 AM
oh, forgot to mention that peer1 is at fault here. They should have prevented the amassing of a 400K. According to their site, they have a quarterly revenue >$45mil. 400k is what... 1% of that amount. If peer1 decides not to pursue the actual reseller, more guys like him will exploit peer1...knowing full well that people like keith will not be caught.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-10-2006, 09:22 AM
The last I spoke with Directiz he had not gotten any servers back and he got the same story that we did about it. The problem is that he and to a lesser extent Robert are being overly optimistic. IF Peer1 does decide to give access to any servers I will be shocked. While we are working with them as well and have set aside capital to try to make this happen, no one has the ability to pay the FULL bill which is really what they want. Not the 98k not the roughly 30k but ALL of Keiths accounts which is considerably higher. If anyone is sitting here waiting on Peer1 or Keith to do something you really are banking on a miracle which is never a good idea. It could happen but don't bet the farm on it. Edit: I should add irpr, you don't have any case as long as robert refunds the money. Everyone including Peer1 knows this so threatening them is not really going to help anyone. This thread has turned into a hate Peer1 thread and I stand by my original position that it is not Peer1 that is to blame in this. Yes they can help the situation but they are not under any legal obligation to do so. I personally will be quite pissed if people are threatening them and have them take a negative stance. The direct clients of keith like us, select and directiz among others are the ones that are out thousands of dollars here and after doing our best to start a business the right way it saddens me greatly to see my team being scattered to the four winds and customers left in the lurch because of this guy. Last edited by Coolraul; 10-10-2006 at 09:27 AM.
Posted by Jag, 10-10-2006, 10:37 AM
Googness, now how many businesses will be damaged by this now? I cant stand when someone blows in with silly deals, gains trust, and racks up a huge bill then bails out. I cant beleive peer1 let them rack up such a large credit line either being so new. I , and all of jaguarpc, would be happy to help out where we can if anyone needs its. This stuff just disgusts me!
Posted by irpr, 10-10-2006, 02:05 PM
First of all im amazed how you take peer1's side here n acting like its your dad's company!!! Also I know I have no case and im not threating anybody! BUT if they give servers back to some people and they say we cant do it for anybody else, then I do have a case and I will definatly go for it! They have to be fair, either come up with a deal for everybody or nobody get s*it back! One more thing for you, Im really confused on how a huge company like PEER1 would sell servers to a fake name with out verifying it and let that FAKE name dont pay a dime for 6 months!!! This is another case right here buddy, Peer1 deserves what ever happenes to them. But all they are doing is taking revenge on us as a end user who had nothing to do with this whole thing!!! All I wana know is does peer1 make money by f*cking us over and keeping our data???
Posted by alucasa, 10-10-2006, 04:50 PM
He can take Peer1's side because he can see this situation clearly from a 3rd point of view. I, too, can see where Peer1 stands and do not find them bad. The bad one appears to be here is this Keith guy, not Peer1 nor the owner of SelectVPS.
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-10-2006, 04:55 PM
Is there any possibility for any of the Peer 1 resellers affected by this, to post the text of contract they have with Peer 1 to this thread... Or at least post the parts of the contract involving Peer 1's obligations regarding "customer data". At the end of the day, Peer 1 is knowingly possession of other people property on the servers that they own and have disconnected from the internet. The contract should state what their obligation is to the resellers is when it comes to that data, and losses to that data due to all issues such as accidents, network outages, and account termination. Peer 1 may be taking the position they that have the right to keep or destroy any data on their servers with absolutely no notice due to non payment of fees… but this is not clear without knowing what the exact terms of the agreement are. If the TOS they have on their website (see an earlier post by me in thread for actual link) is the actual agreement, then I think Peer 1 is in the wrong at this point of time. The TOS clearly states that Peer 1 must provide 30 days notice to their customer (the reseller) if they believe their customer is in breech of contract. Non payment is a breach of contract. Of course, if Peer 1 did provide notice to the resellers and those resellers did not pass that word along to us, then that's another issue altogether. From my conversation with Peer 1 director of sales, he flatly told me he didn't need to provide any notice for disconnecting "my servers” for non-payment and he has every right to wipe the data. (The my in the prior sentence is the director of sales referring to the servers in first person). Of course, we are not customer of Peer 1 servers, so any liability for our losses reside completely with the resellers and we have every right to expect the resellers to perform due diligence to work with Peer 1. This due diligence includes at a minimum working with Peer 1 to restore access to our data and pursue any legal action if Peer 1 refuses and are not complying with their contract. Failure to do that would subject the resellers to liability from the end users. However, I also believe that Peer 1 has also opened themselves to liability from the "end users" by their act of withholding the end user's data even though those end users are not direct clients of Peer 1. I have posed this question to some lawyers I know and am awaiting their opinion on the matter. The reasons why I believe that it is now fair game for the end users to pursue potential legal matters with Peer 1 are because Peer 1: 1. Leased these servers knowing full well they would be resold to third parties and that the data residing on their server would be the property of those third parties. 2. Peer 1 acknowledges in the Terms of Service that all data on the machines belong to the customer and they have no rights to that data. 3. Peer 1's TOS disclaims their liability for any losses to customer data hosted on their machines that is lost due to accidental causes. However the contract is silent on the issue of any data loss due to any intentional deletions of data or disruptions of services outside of those caused by their actions allowed under contract. 4. Their TOS claims they will provide 30 day written notice to their customer (the reseller) of any decision to terminate the contract due to breach of contract, and Peer 1 failed to provide such notice (as far as we know). 5. Peer 1 disconnected the servers fully aware that their servers host and posses the property of numerous third parties. Although the "data" is virtual property, it is property none-the-less and Peer 1 possesses this property which they do not own. 6. Peer 1 is holding this data "hostage" as collateral in their efforts to collect a debt owed to them. The data they are holding is not the property of the party they are trying to collect debt from, nor do they hold any legal collateral over that property, nor do the parties that own the data owe Peer 1 any money. Its possible Peer 1 is in violation of the federal debt collection laws due to the actions they are choosing to perform in their efforts to collect monies owed to them. 7. In the preceding days to the disconnection by Peer 1, they have released between 20 to 100 servers of capacity to the affected resellers, all the while never expressing (as far as we have been told) any reservations for extending more credit to the resellers while an apparently large past due balance was allowed to accumulated by Peer 1. Peer 1's decisions to allow those servers to go online and to be resold while the account was so far in arrears could be considered a negligent act. That act of negligence put the data of hundreds of third parties at risk that ended up leasing those last few servers without any way of knowing that their data was at serious jeopardy. Contract or not, Peer 1 is in possession of our data. They knowingly possess that data. That possession can make them subject to liability and claims by the owners of that data unless Peer 1 has a legal right to possess and/or to destroy that data. Additionally, Peer 1 is using this data in order to strengthen their hand in their efforts to collect their debts. For all those reasons, I think anyone with data on a disconnected server "should" pursue legal actions against Peer 1 to protect their data if the potential losses of the data would exceed the cost of the legal fees to pursue the litigation. Feel free to share any of the arguments I laid out above with any attorney you may seek council from. Good luck everyone… Last edited by ArtieMcD; 10-10-2006 at 05:07 PM.
Posted by Cirtex, 10-10-2006, 05:06 PM
Hi, I've been reading this thread for the past few days and I have to say this situation is probably the worst to be in not only for Robert but also his customers and their customers and so on, I really hope things get resolved in the end and I know a friend of mine worked at SelectVPS and he worked very hard to make the VPS Customers happy and went over his assigned tasks to help them. Maybe Peer1 will work something out with Robert or at least for Robert's customers. Cheers
Posted by AvailNetworks, 10-10-2006, 05:07 PM
that actually seriously made me naucious. A dream flushed by some idiot who is only looking out for himself. best of luck to you and your former clients. I can tell you really care about your people and their situation. Most people in your position would have just left and said oh well
Posted by Coolraul, 10-10-2006, 05:26 PM
No its not my dads company (he is retired and I suspect that my son is your age) and I have a different point of view having lost quite a bit more than you have on this. The Andre Robert refers to is me so trust me I know far more about this situation having dealt with Keith, peer1, robert and Directiz directly. I with Omegavps was one of the companies hurt by this Keith guy and no one has lost more on this than Omegavps except Select. Trust me when I say I understand your frustration. You can read the Omegavps thread here. The truth isn't that Keith didn't pay for 6 months the truth is that he DID pay but then somehow (I honestly don't know how) charged back a bunch of payments. That is what triggered Peer to take this action. Are they blameless, no. Am I hopeful for a reasonable resolution, yes. Am i holding my breath, again no. edit: Artie, no I don't think notice was given but given that he somehow pulled back money already sent (again I have no idea how you do that with ACH) they took this as a reason for an immediate disconnect. I don't think Keith had more than a day's notice though. Last edited by sirius; 10-11-2006 at 04:53 PM.
Posted by alucasa, 10-10-2006, 05:27 PM
What I am going to type below will be purely my assumption. Trust and faith, I suppose. This Keith person gained trust somehow. How he managed to get an account with a fake name, that I don't know. It could be easy to do so if he is a US citizen dealing with US business online. He could have also changed his name once I established the account. Again, all above is just my assumption. Pretty easy to answer that... Bad luck, tough luck, whatever fits your taste. Last edited by sirius; 10-11-2006 at 04:54 PM.
Posted by irpr, 10-10-2006, 05:58 PM
I didn't want to insult or anything its just pissing me off that peer1 is taking revenge on us for their own fault! I didnt know about that Keith paid them and then pulled it back. This is a case right here again. How the hell did he manage to do such a thing with such a company?! THIS is truley peer1's fault, not ours. So why do we have to pay for their mistake and we have to suffer because they don't know how to do business! I know Omega was hit by this too and I know you guys lost way more than I did at this point, but all Im saying is dont give all the rights to peer1. They are the one who did wrong, not you, robert, or me. klisis dont even talk about trust and faith in business specially in United States! Such a big company wont work with trust and faith! This is something questionable with peer1, it sounds like they have a person in there who helped keith to manage doing things like opening account with fake name, getting those many servers with that fake name, and according to RAUL pay peer1 and pull his money back which sounds really unreal. I cannot believe anybody could ever do such a thing without having a major connection in the company! Im really surprised how peer1 wont come and answer our questions!!! Last edited by irpr; 10-10-2006 at 06:03 PM.
Posted by alucasa, 10-10-2006, 06:20 PM
Why should Peer1 answer any questions on a public forum if they intend to bring this to a court? That'd be a bad move on their part. Furthermore, they don't owe you anything *legally*. They *should* answer questions but they don't have to and don't need to. It is true that I am not from US though.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-10-2006, 07:43 PM
Why go into business if you dont care about what your doing?? Everyone of my customers were equally important to me, whether we spoke everyday or once a month.. I will not accept this as the defeat to me being in the Hosting Business.. If I have to pay thousands out of my pocket, I will do so to make sure those who need refunds, get refunds and those who caused this get whats coming for them.. Just a note to everyone, I couldnt / didnt get in touch with Azues or Wesley today to see whats going on.. I will keep everyone updated as much as I can.. Thanks,
Posted by Concieved, 10-10-2006, 08:11 PM
I worked for Keith under one of his failing companies a while ago (he lies so much its insane). He can be found in one of the follow ventrilo servers enervate.steampoweredservers.com port: 2079 64.71.161.10 port: 3784 Hopefully this info can get some people further. Also, Plat23, I would not trust him with saying he is going to pay you. He is a lier, always was, and always will be. Last edited by dollar; 10-11-2006 at 05:06 PM.
Posted by Jag, 10-10-2006, 09:45 PM
not everyone has the same business model
Posted by bdsnyder, 10-10-2006, 10:01 PM
Just testing my research skills... Using Google, info off another public forum which HE posted 2 more Phone Numbers. Keith Mansfield GameImpulse Steam Powered Servers MSN/E-Mail: Keith@steampoweredservers.com AIM: MasterEligh85 Phone (662) 570-4208 Tupelo, Mississippi or Call me Day or night 662-570-4839
Posted by Josh-D, 10-10-2006, 10:57 PM
Well hello WHT. I myself have been stung $7.5k with this company, and lost many clients, forcing me to loose my business. and yes the day/night number is working i just called and kieth answered, so hes still out there screwing with people. Tomarrow I shell call and give him my thoughts that is for sure. The numbers he is using there, seem to look like skype numbers, lucky for me I called on my home line with caller blocking so he cant call me back, but tomarrow he shell get a word full.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-10-2006, 10:59 PM
Just curious, how many servers did you have with Keith? Thanks
Posted by Josh-D, 10-10-2006, 11:04 PM
I had 45 at the time, breakdown was as so: 20 - P4 servers 15 - Intels 10 - AMD's then there was 20 AMD Opteron 240, 8GB Ram that we purchased with him, all payed for, and many on 3+ month bases. This cuasing me to have no money to turn around my clients at any other place. I had to pay 1k just for a direct line to peer1, which ended up being turned off on my 2nd phone call to them, checking on a reboot process. Crap all the way around, thats all I have to say.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-10-2006, 11:13 PM
This all sounds so familiar it hurts. I feel for you LSComputers. Same deal, prepay for months and months at a time to lock in pricing and to ensure we don't need to worry about an issue with ourselves or our upstream that was my thinking. I felt that if he had the cash up front to cover things off and prepay just as we did then whats the chance of this happening. Furthermore I saw paid invoices in Peer1 its the chargeback that they told me about that seems to have set things in motion. The day before Keith told me that he had 24k hacked out of his account somehow. I told Robert in passing to just say heads up there is some issue keep an eye on things, hours later, all hell broke loose. Hindsight is of course 20/20 but I truly believed after Roberts discussions with Peer1 along with Adam's (Directiz) along with us prepaying for quite a while that there was zero chance of this happening.
Posted by Concieved, 10-10-2006, 11:25 PM
He changed his emial to KeithM@steampoweredservers.com M = Mansfield, or whatever the hell his last name is.
Posted by Andrew, 10-10-2006, 11:32 PM
Lscomputers, not to kick you while you're down, but when I clicked on your site, I was hit with one question: Why did you steal the Screen Gems logo? Some of us are old enough to remember that company's logo well. It was so imprinted in my head that when I saw your site, all I thought was "Screen Gems"!
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-10-2006, 11:32 PM
Bad thing about it -- "Steve" His 'partner' (the person we sent the money to) never hacked his bank account nor stole money from Keith as Keith claimed -- I asked Steve and Curtis both about it and they said it was not true... hrm... o.O
Posted by Concieved, 10-11-2006, 01:27 AM
No one hacked his account. Steve Duskett stole money from Keith. Keith doesnt have his own paypal, he uses Steve Dusketts, because the bank wont give him an account.
Posted by Josh-D, 10-11-2006, 07:33 AM
Ahh, another problem I am yet faced with: the design was created by: http://creatureweb.com I had payed $5k for the site you can sorta see it at - http://lakeshoreservices.net/development/ yea he never finished it, and wont return my calls, another thing im chacing down. I guess it was a bad month, everything went to hell for me. So yes, dont deal with creatureweb either for website designs, hes a fraud, i know.
Posted by Josh-D, 10-11-2006, 07:36 AM
O one off keiths techs with IS, had informed me a while ago as well, kieth tried to make a payment to peer1, by stealing over $9k out of a clients paypal (creditcard) to make an payment to himself and in turn to peer1. Again more problems with this shady keith person. Also ment to add this in post above. regarding my site, its not really used anymore, so if its really a problem ill just take the splash and stuff down, its just there, incase someday within the next 6 months I can start up and be successfull then I will. But right now im working 3 jobs to make the funds to pay my clients back.
Posted by Tuddy, 10-11-2006, 08:34 AM
ok quick question robert, have you called the police over Keith? If you have not, then what are you doing?
Posted by Coolraul, 10-11-2006, 09:11 AM
Generally you only get one shot at that so I can't speak for Robert but I am getting my details together. I also would prefer to get access for the customer data before starting that whole process. The problem is that by bringing in the police we may find Peer1 to be less amenable to a single day access for customers to get their data.
Posted by IrdHost, 10-11-2006, 09:34 AM
The problem is that we wait since 1 week for to have access to our data. From our side, i'm in process to prosecute PEER1 because they hold our business data illegally.
Posted by ServerSquads, 10-11-2006, 02:47 PM
I dont know where you are geting with this <> i had any thing 2 do with it but stop posting my info all over this forum . and i am asking a moderator to delete it also Last edited by sirius; 10-11-2006 at 04:55 PM.
Posted by ServerSquads, 10-11-2006, 02:50 PM
This is pretty said when some one says keith. then couple people strart posting my info on it. and i get phone calls and msn meassages all throw the night. for services i dont offer. i rent game instances throw insomia365 coretex please stop calling posting my info. and again i am askin a forum admin to delete this post due to privacy act of 1974 . witch states in there that info that was not requested to me for my privet info is agenst the law.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-11-2006, 02:53 PM
You sold me servers and you sold everyone else servers... I agree -- them posting your information was a bit out of line -- but YOU CAN NOT THREATEN ME BY THEM POSTING IT!
Posted by irpr, 10-11-2006, 03:16 PM
Shut the hell up idiot, you screwed everybody here n acting like nothing happened and you have nothing to do with this whole mess!!!
Posted by Scott.Mc, 10-11-2006, 03:18 PM
Ladys and Gentlemen. This is why you never do business with idiots. I feel sorry for everyone caught up in this but Platinum while I do think you do mean the best by your customers, the very fact you purchased anything from this guy is beyond me. I belive there is also a link to another thread on steam about this guy and well going on those and his posts here he is quite clearly an idiot. -Scott
Posted by irpr, 10-11-2006, 03:21 PM
No Scott, he is acting like an idiot like nothing happened, like he didnt do anything!!!, this <> screwed everybody and he is acting like an idiot to get outa the mess!!! Last edited by westcan; 10-11-2006 at 10:42 PM.
Posted by alucasa, 10-11-2006, 03:29 PM
Just out of curiosity, has anyone... informed local police in your area? The amount of money involved in this mess is beyond an individual's capacity.
Posted by utropicmedia-karl, 10-11-2006, 03:31 PM
I hate to be the bringer of bad news, but from what I understand, Keith had the relationship with Peer1 and you had a relationship with Keith. If this is indeed the case, then Peer1 is not liable for your situation, and you have no legal grounds towards them.
Posted by Tuddy, 10-11-2006, 03:32 PM
wtf are you on about. If this man has frauded people and you have his contact details, it costs you $1 to call your local police station and file a report against him. His details are obviously correct as someone posted them here and he has been forced to come onto the forums. Report him
Posted by sirius, 10-11-2006, 04:59 PM
Are you Keith? ** Subscribes to thread.... Sirius
Posted by Coolraul, 10-11-2006, 05:35 PM
Ok Keith just behave. Clearly that is you and you know and I know as does Robert, Adam and several others that what you are saying is full of ****. You coming here and suggesting that it isn't you and that you didn't sell servers then not pay is just a joke. I kept your name out of it,never posting your name or contact information but since you have decided to try this, let me amend that. The person who ripped us all off is below: business[at]enervatemedia.com that is the paypal I sent money to I believe you had us paying for your new website and that they are not to blame but they accepted the money from you and that is where the credit card chargeback will go so o well. In addition I paid other paypals as you were "between" paypals. I also have the invoices marked as paid that you sent from your email to mine as proof. [00:05] omegavps: Payment Sent (ID #8EY297961G9643445) Original Transaction Date Type Status Details Amount Sep. 30, 2006 Payment To Enervate Media Completed ... -$950.00 USD You claimed that this is your federal tax id. I didn't confirm it. [13:40]spskeithmansfie: Your Federal Tax ID is 20-5591402 it may be used immediately [13:41] spskeithmansfie: Dear Keith Mansfield Thank you for your interest in the BBBOnLine Reliability program. BBBOnLine Reliability participants must be members of the BBB where they are headquartered, be in business at least one year (with limited exceptions), and agree to BBB standards for truthful advertising and customer dispute resolution. Your application has been sent to the following Better Business Bureau serving olive branch: [17:36] omegavps: whats your address again? [17:36] spskeithmansfie: keith mansfield [17:36] spskeithmansfie: 1995 bridge forth road [17:36] spskeithmansfie: olive branch [17:36] spskeithmansfie: ms 38654 [17:36] spskeithmansfie: ms - mississippi [17:41] spskeithmansfie: Thank you so much [17:42] omegavps: hmm why do they list your name as like dadazeio in peer 1? [17:43] omegavps: anyway i am trying to do it online just curious [17:43] spskeithmansfie: Thats my Maden name [14:14] spskeithmansfie: call me let me know whats up please 662-420-2679 [18:30] spskeithmansfie: Im back Session Start (omegavpspskeithmansfie): Wed Oct 04 20:14:24 2006 [20:14] spskeithmansfie: Sorry. just got back on Family over [20:14] omegavps: cool [20:14] spskeithmansfie: Some thing going on with the connection at the center. [20:14] omegavps: whats going on with the peeer1 [20:14] spskeithmansfie: thats what jess told me [20:14] omegavps: ok well keith we both know thats a lie [20:15] omegavps: so lets just cut the ******** please i am smarter than that [20:15] omegavps: i understand why you are saying this its not pretty [20:15] omegavps: but lets face the **** like big boys and move on k [20:16] spskeithmansfie: WFT [20:16] spskeithmansfie: you talking about. [20:16] omegavps: i am letting you finish first [20:16] omegavps: Keith you and I both know the following [20:16] omegavps: you were cut off from peer1 [20:16] spskeithmansfie: no i wasint. lol [20:16] omegavps: select, omega and adam are all down [20:16] omegavps: i spoke twice with peer1 today [20:16] omegavps: and was told that [20:17] omegavps: i am waiting on some vp to call me [20:17] spskeithmansfie: Who told you that. [20:17] omegavps: to work something out [20:17] omegavps: is it untrue keith we talked about the bill yesterday [20:17] omegavps: where 20k roughly is owed [20:17] omegavps: what i would hope that you would do [20:17] omegavps: is simply put the lies behind you and me [20:17] spskeithmansfie: Who told you i was cut off. [20:18] omegavps: ok well can i put it this way [20:18] omegavps: why are you even asking that question and evading the real question [20:18] omegavps: why are all your accounts currently down [20:18] spskeithmansfie: I whant to know who told you that. [20:19] omegavps: i am not even that pissed [20:19] omegavps: i just want to know how to fix it [20:19] omegavps: not to hear more foolishness [20:19] spskeithmansfie: who told you this [20:19] omegavps: well i am waiting to get on a confernce call with goddam it forgot the name of the people [20:20] omegavps: one is a vp of dedicated for peer the other is a director of sales [20:20] omegavps: i know your cash was stolen from the bank you told me that yesterday [20:20] omegavps: so can we PLEASE stop with this [20:23] omegavps: shall i call you? i am going to get in the car shortly [20:26] spskeithmansfie: whats you number . [20:27] omegavps: 416-xxx-xxxx on the phone for a few minutes let me call you when i am off [20:28] spskeithmansfie: confrancing [20:28] spskeithmansfie: peer 1 [20:28] spskeithmansfie: get ogg [20:28] omegavps: sure call me then its even in the ticket that its a billing issue Session Close (spskeithmansfie): Wed Oct 04 21:08:07 2006 I will post the other paypal transactions and the Western union that I sent you if that helps to "jog" your memory as I still have a copy of it and I am including it in my submissions for both criminal and civil action. I am sure I won't have a problem gaining corroboration from others with hard and fast evidence. If you believe that I am somehow breaking the law, you know where to find me so I look forward to your response. Andre
Posted by Josh-D, 10-11-2006, 05:42 PM
O well heres some more information, i guess were all at fault for not learning about this before today: 1) http://forums.clantemplates.com/showthread.php?t=85372 – doesn’t say it was Keith that did this but it doesn’t say he didn’t, and it sure seems to be an act that you would do, and in any means you had committed this one serversquad? 2) http://www.clantemplates.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79455 – this showing that ServerSquads is also known as GameImpuse… Very interesting lets see what this brings. 3) http://forums.clantemplates.com/showthread.php?t=77754&page=2 – This showing that GameImpuse also know as ServerSquads ran SquadVoice (seems it crashed before it started). Again another interesting project that didn’t make it, maybe a link, not sure, but it has to do with ServerSquads, and hum, that name isn’t something someone will use to have an email and company and many forum boards use. 4) http://forums.clantemplates.com/member.php?u=62112 – o look what google shows on this link “ServerSquads,GameHoster,InsomniacServers. All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:14 AM. Powered by vBulletin Version 3.6.0 ...” does this seem to be a link to all three of those companies?.. seems so. 5) http://forums.clantemplates.com/member.php?u=62112 – look what this link tells us “ Old usernames ServerSquads,GameHoster,InsomniacServers “ and you know what his current name is now GameImpulse.. again more linking activity. Also domains so far found: gameImpulse.com: - dns to NS1.INSOMNIACSERVERS.COM & ns2.INSOMNIACSERVERS.COM - Registered domain to a Keith Mansfield (same name right ). - registered with Godaddy with private information protection insomniacservers.com: - Keith’s last screw over the public - dns to NS1.INSOMNIACSERVERS.COM & ns2.INSOMNIACSERVERS.COM - registered with namealerts with private information protection ServerSquads.com: - registered with godaddy with private information protection GameHoster.com: - Ordered at tucows after speaking with them, the money was charged backed as a fraud, so the domain was placed in renew me status, and never touched. O theres more, but I have to go for now, Ill continue the search shortly. So please don’t say your not who you say you are in this forum, your caught red handed, and you cant get away this time.
Posted by Omega-Mark, 10-11-2006, 06:19 PM
What catches me even more is the fact that he said that the other name was HIS "Maiden Name".
Posted by irpr, 10-11-2006, 09:16 PM
Robert, Any News From Peer1?
Posted by RossH, 10-11-2006, 10:28 PM
Why hasn't peer1 called the FBI yet....$400,000 in damages are worth their attention?
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 12:05 AM
This sort of thing is one of those "1 shot, 1 deal" - If we failed to provide enough solid evidence, then it will get shot down and we cant continue further -- But have no fear; I am working on a good-solid case Thats correct.. My customers would be coming after me (and I hope you all dont ).. I would be going after Keith.. and Keith would have to go after Peer1.. I was talking to him in Ventrilo minutes before he posted -- he 'threatened' me to edit all my posts, close this thread, and ask the mods to remove all of his info.. I told him, I cant edit past 15minutes (which I cant), I wont close this thread (As it would just get merged in with another thread about the same subject -- this thread is for MY CUSTOMERS and keeping THEM in the loop), and that I have already asked the mods to remove his phone number and I was just told "Keith needs to contact us".. Thats his 'step-dads'? Last name which he is "trying" to get changed to his last name.. Same reason they let someone sign up with a phoney last name and build such a large debt with that name None as of yet -- Im off tomorrow, so, they better answer before I call every 10minutes Thanks, Robert
Posted by adam, 10-12-2006, 01:15 AM
Why would you ask the mods to remove his number if he has defrauded you so badly? I would of wanted it to be in the thread for the public to see if I was you. When you talked to him on Ventrilo, what did he say about all of this?
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 01:20 AM
I did it in hopes that I get my Dedicated Server from him (seperate issue -- during the time with Keith, I purchased a Dedicated Server colocated in / at CI-Host in Chicago..) -- Which I havent received yet -- I was trying to give a little more to get my server back - he said they shipped it, yet the Chicago CI Host facility hasnt shipped anything.. The server does exist and it is colocated -- that I have verified.. Just as I wouldnt want my private information leaked onto the forums (unless I openly gave it out) -- so I asked the mods to remove his phone number.. They told me he has to ask, so I just let it go.. Off Topic: Adam, Wheres the tequila?
Posted by adam, 10-12-2006, 01:28 AM
It's all gone..busting open the Southern Comfort now!
Posted by irpr, 10-12-2006, 01:51 AM
So Robert did you even talk to this guy about peer1??? I guess this is more important than anything else right now!
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 01:54 AM
I have -- he just moves to another subject or point about Peer1..
Posted by Aussie Bob, 10-12-2006, 02:11 AM
I'll bring the Johnny Walker. It's not much, but might sooth some frayed nerves.
Posted by irpr, 10-12-2006, 03:26 AM
so whats the deal? Im really confused, If this guy did screw peer1, why dont they go after him? Or if he did all this to you and omega and directiz, why are you guys hangin out with him and talking about business again?!!! and one more, are you guys really planing to do anything for us??? or are we just basically wasting our time here
Posted by mctDarren, 10-12-2006, 04:28 AM
All I can say is wow. What a thread. Now that I have seen a piece of an IM and a couple of posts from this guy I have to ask - why this guy?? Pricing alone? No offense meant to anyone but the language alone makes me pause...
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 09:21 AM
Im sure Peer1 intends on going after him.. I cant talk about the others, but I can talk about myself.. Im not hanging out with him -- I'm trying to resolve things WITHOUT taking it to court (It would be just like me throwing GOOD MONEY after BAD MONEY).. I am trying my best to do everything I can to help all of my customers.. Im working With Andre (omegavps) and others to build up a case against him.. Thanks, Robert
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 09:23 AM
When I first met Keith, his language was different -- over time, I started to notice his language slip (as in spelling "them" as "um", etc).. I started to question myself when I seen this sort of language, though didnt pay that much to it as I had trust in him as well as Peer1 (Jesse -- because he told me it was legit)...
Posted by mctDarren, 10-12-2006, 09:32 AM
Not that IM chat equates intelligence or trustworthiness - I know some folks that run million dollar businesses who speak fluent leetspeak But that issue above still gets me, an employee of Peer1 was acting on their behalf to assure you of the legitimacy of this person. If that is true then it complicates matters for them greatly. Sad affair for all parties involved.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-12-2006, 01:19 PM
The IM log I posted happened obviously after the whole saga started and his accounts were shut down. He did not conduct himself in this manner prior to this. "Lipstick on a pig" as my wife puts it.
Posted by Karri, 10-12-2006, 01:25 PM
Any word? It has been a week since they started holding our data hostage after all.
Posted by IrdHost, 10-12-2006, 02:06 PM
I just need 6 hours to backup my customers data... WTF is now 1 week... My customers want their data.
Posted by irpr, 10-12-2006, 02:08 PM
I know man! even a quick mysql backup + 100mb php files is enough for me!!!
Posted by Jame$, 10-12-2006, 02:20 PM
The servers would have been formatted and deployed to new customers by now?
Posted by thetimehascome, 10-12-2006, 02:36 PM
Because it isn't "damages". It's a debt, and therefore an issue for the usual debt collection routines and the civil courts. The only reseller affected by this is that Keith person, and he's surely not going to post whatever contract terms he agreed to, if they are different than the terms posted on Peer1's own site. If you're that interested in contract law, you should go to law school. What you believe the contract "should" state, what the terms state on their site, and what terms were agreed to by Keith can vary widely. If terms are not stated, then you can certainly not tell them what they should do based on what you want to read into the posted policies, or what you believe is missing. You have no idea what notice Peer1 gave to their direct reseller (Keith) and what he did or did not communicate to anyone. You therefore have no basis for presuming Peer1 is wrong on anything. They, like any other provider, are under no obligation to anyone except the person who contracted their services (Keith) and are under no obligation to provide serivce without being properly compensated for it (and quite obviously, they have not been paid). If you are a customer of a reseller, then Peer1 has no obligatoin to you for anything at all, because you are not their customer. If Peer1's reseller does not pay, the reseller has breached the terms of any reasonable contract, and if the reseller has breached the contract, Peer1 is under no obligation to extend other policies that may be contained in that contract, such as 30 days written notice. I'm afraid you are unclear on what the term "due diligence" means. You have no legal recourse against Peer1, because - as multiple people have pointed out - you are not their customer. Keith is. If they have terminated his service for nonpayment, they are under no obligation to retain data on servers leased by him, because he has not paid for the services they have provided and has therefore breached the agreement. You'd be hard pressed to find any lawyer who would agree with your assessment unless they were into ambulance chasing. Peer1's contract is not with any end user other than Keith. The only person who could possibly go after Peer1 is Keith. The only people who could go after Keith are those people who directly contracted service from him. End users with data sitting around on servers who bought from one of those middlemen can only go after those middlemen. And so on. Um, so? Clothing manufacturers sell their goods to retail outlets. You pay a retail outlet for a shirt, and they fail to deliver it. You then find out that the manufacturer did not ship the shirt because the retail outlet failed to pay. Who is your claim against? Certainly not the manufacturer. The fact that they know their shirts will be sold to third parties is irrelevant. The data belongs to Peer1's customer. That would be Keith, for those having trouble following along, because Keith is Peer1's customer, and the person with whom the contract was entered. And if Peer1's customre breaches the contract by failing to pay for services, then Peer1 is under no obligation to retain anything for that customer. You really should study contract law, especially as it relates to terms not specifically stated. You know nothing of the sort. Irrelevant. Their customer is Keith, and for their purposes, all of the data on every server is therefore Keith's as well. Peer1 will, and should be, going to the party who incurred the debt or the responsible party as listed in their contract. If they are requesting the funds from another party, they will have to show that the other party was either bound by the contract or acting in such a fashion (as a proxy) that it can be shown that other party was a de facto responsible party for the debt. IMO, anyone who starts managing things from a company's direct website, as platinum did, is a fool to do so without having an explicit statement on file that they are not the contracted party but an authorized contact for some particular function. He didn't do this, and since he was logging in to do things, Peer1 could very assess that he was in fact or could be deemed a responsible party. It's shortsighted of them and doesn't result in very good PR. If they were lax enough to let someone amass a huge debt, they have some internal issues that need to be addressed. Where are you getting this information, exactly? Who exactly was permitted access to or entered into standalone contracts with Peer1? And if they did enter into standalone contracts, just how do you know the terms under which those releases were granted? No, no, no, and once again no. Peer1 is in possession of Keith's data. Why on earth is it so difficult for some people to understand this? Keith is their customer. You are not. And I would recommend that before people start taking advice from nonlawyers on a hosting forum that they check in with real lawyers first. Especially if they believe for a moment that Peer1 has any obligation or liability to third parties with whom they do not have contracts.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-12-2006, 02:48 PM
Good post. I agree with pretty much all your points except that I am aware having been the direct customer of Keith's and having spoken to Peer1 that they did NOT give him 30 days as the chargeback happened and then he was yanked by Peer1 within a couple of days. I have refrained from giving advice for the same reasons you cited and while you are mostly correct according to the feedback given from my lawyers none of this helps the customers who are being affected other than my original guidance of you should consider this data lost for all intents and if a miracle happens and Peer1 gives access then thats good. My problem is that my lawyers are all Canadian and as such they are seeking to find legal help from someone in Mississipi but one thing is certain is that we have little or no grounds for going after Peer1. It would be wasted legal fees to do so EXCEPT for one thing which was already mentioned but I will not comment on further.
Posted by thetimehascome, 10-12-2006, 03:07 PM
If he did do a chargeback, and it were my company, I'd immediately suspend all services, too. Peer1 has this in their terms for dedicated hosting. http://www.dedicatedhosting.com/aboutus/tos.php "Delinquent accounts may be suspended at PEER 1's sole discretion." I completely agree with you: people who had data on the affected servers should consider that data gone. Unless Peer1 wanted to do the sunshine PR routine and turn up the servers for a specified period (24 hours, for example), people need to use what they have, if anything, and move on. If they have nothing, then that's a hard lesson learned.
Posted by iHubNet, 10-12-2006, 03:17 PM
lol.. finally page 21.. I was reading all the stroy from page1 and tried of reading it.. so long.. so what is it now? what is going on now? Thanks
Posted by Concieved, 10-12-2006, 04:20 PM
Squadvoice? Must be a new business he is trying to start up. Why try to start another crappy business up when you are in sh** with the first one. Yea, when I read that IM post all that came to mind was, "wow". My first question, above all else would be: Why do business with a man who can barley speak, and type in his dominant language. I mean, I could understand if he was East Indian, or from Bangladesh. 4 year olds speak better english then this guy. Total business put-off. Good thing I never purchased anything from this idiot.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-12-2006, 04:31 PM
You should read the entire thing. He did not conduct himself like that prior to the shutoff. It was as if he was so stressed out that he reverted to his natural state.
Posted by Concieved, 10-12-2006, 04:35 PM
I used to work for him (for a brief period of time). I Wasnt on much, but everytime we spoke about something on ventrilo, or AIM that is how he spoke at all times.
Posted by Josh-D, 10-12-2006, 05:21 PM
Yes well i questioned him, and at the time asked platiumn23 about him, which ended up with my servers terminated, and 1 week later all this mess. But he started swearing at me, for calling his tech line 10 times in over an 3 day period, over a server that crashed. Im sorry but when you get voicemail, and then try pming the techs and they sign off, something seems fishy and yea you would call more as well. But i asked platium and i guess he told keith on vent, in the end all this mess has happened.
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-12-2006, 06:34 PM
You know I probably shouldn't bother responding, but your post has as much weight as mine... They are nothing but opinions. I'm not interested in going to law school, but I have consulted with two attorneys in this case. Not sure how many you have talked to. Also, don't be too quick to assume that I am not up to speed on what contracts Peer 1 has with their resellers. I have spoken with Peer 1 in order to research the contract issue, and they informed me where their legal documents are and that they are indeed the same for all their resellers. I have shared these findings with everyone in an earlier post in this thread. Neither do you, but I do know what Peer 1 has told me. And I led off my post asking to see if an alternative contract was used in this case just in case what peer 1 told me was incorrect. Unless new evidence is posted, I am going to assume the document Peer 1 referred me to be the official agreement for the time being. I never said I or anyone could. If the contract is silent on the issue, there MAY be laws in the state that they do business that do address the issue. The bigger question is does the law recognize bits sitting on a hard drive as property. I am awaiting a lawyer’s opinion on this matter. Actually, I do belive I have a basis... you simply disagree with my opinion. My basis again... 1. Peer 1 possessed our data. 2. The data is on property of theirs that was put in production for the specific purpose of leasing to others to host their data. 3. A good percentage of their business is leasing their property through a "reseller" program, and a reasonable person can assume those resellers would lease those machines to other parties. 4. Peer 1 knows this and has terms in their contracts specifically defining this so called "CUSTOMER DATA" and who has what responsibility for it. 5. I believe that in the state of Florida there "MAY" be laws on the books that prevent Peer 1 from destroying that data. Before you go off claiming I am giving legal advice... Read it again and notice the word... "MAY" They MAY have..... We don't know if they do or not... but I think they "MAY" and I asked an attorney to find out. If you have information from an attorney that can answer the question one way or another that you are willing to share, please do. But without it, I'm just going to have to disagree with your opinion. Are you a lawyer? If so, thanks for the free legal advice. But I fear you are not a lawyer so I will wait to see what my lawyers have to say. As I mention in my original post, I made arguments on why Peer 1 "MAY" be liable now even though we have no contract with them. Peer 1 has the sticky situation of being in possession of other persons "property". Peer 1 is aware they possess this property. I think they may have obligations under the laws of the state of Florida regarding the property that they come in possession of. In fact, I think that potential sticky issue is one reason they may not have wiped the data yet as their legal team may still be trying to determine what they can and cannot do with this "property." You're wrong... It's obvious you haven’t read the terms in Peer 1's reseller contract. Your only basing your commends on sheer assumptions and not facts. To save you time... here's the key line(s) from the contract Peer 1 referred me to. "Either party may terminate this Agreement immediately upon the occurrence of any one or more of the following events: (I) the other party breaches any material term or provision of this Agreement, and if capable of cure, such breach remains uncured 30 days after the non-breaching party gives written notice thereof to the breaching party; " Had you saw that, you would see, Peer 1 and/or the reseller as per the contract are required to provide 30 day notice to the other party if they believe the other party has breech the contract before they can terminate it. There are other provisions in that section that allow Peer 1 to terminate service due to significant technical issues or violations of the AUS that require immediate intervention. These are completely reasonable provisions. I'm afraid you are unclear on who I was referring to when I mentioned whom has the obligation to perform due diligence to restore access to my data. This was in direct reference to SelectVPSs obligation to us as a direct client. One attorney told me, that if SelectVPS simply gives up, or makes little to no effort to get access to the data, they could be liable to us for losses. I made no statement toward Peer 1 regarding due diligence. Again, you’re assuming here. Some states have laws on the books that specify what you can and can't do with property that a person or individual may find or come in possession of regardless of the relationship that person may have. IE in Florida a person who finds a wallet in the street with a wad of cash, has the legal obligation to return it to its owner or to turn it over to law enforcement so that they can return it to their owner. Of course, that is only one specific example, and possibly and example that does not even relate to electronic/business data/property. The question is how the laws in Florida will apply in this matter, and once again, unless you are an attorney, neither one of us know the answer to this. At this point this is simply an opinion statement. My opinion differs. This is a phony analogy. We didn't buy physical property from SelectVPS or Peer 1. We leased access to hardware owned by Peer 1, the rights to use that hardware which were sold to Keith, and resold to SelectVPS, and then to us. And before service was terminated those services were provided to us with no issues. Our claims against Peer 1 have nothing to do with the specific service or warranty that selectvps did or did not deliver to us (which in turn was delivered by Kevin and Peer 1). I believe we may have claims against Peer 1 because as a side affect of their decision to pull the plug, they are now in exclusive possession of property (aka data) that belongs to other parties. Property which I believe they have no right to retain and that they improperly took possession of. I guess I should have been clearer when I posted my message that I was posting my opinion on why I believe Peer 1 can be held liable for our data even though we are not a directly involved with them. We became directly involved with them when they improperly took possession of our data. In order to prove they improperly took possession of someone else’s data, I believe we need to establish that Peer 1 (or any reasonable person) would have to know that their servers would posses data that is ultimately owned by someone not involved in the contract establishing the Peer 1 - resellers relationship. All I am establishing with my #1 comment is that Peer 1 is in the business in hosting resellers. This is obviously the case. From that, a reasonable person can assume that Peer 1 is fully aware that these machines will be hosting third party content/data/property. Once again, you’re assuming and have presented no legal backing (neither have I for that matter, but I haven't given up and hope to have a legal opinion soon...) Keith HAD the right to HOST "data" on the servers and to pass data though the Peer 1 network. This is the service that is described in Peer 1s reseller contract. This ability in no way gave or transferred possession or any copyrights to that data to Keith/SelectVPS/and or Peer 1. On the other hand we can prove that data is ours as we can identify specifically what the data is, identify unique files and file content, provide password that we used to protect this data, and show proof that we are the legal owners of the copyrights and distribution rights to that data. Peer 1 simply sold to Keith the ability to store/host/transmit the data. They also granted him the right to resell that ability to others. Nothing more and nothing less. Peer 1 then sub sequentially cut off access to this storage and resell abilities. They can be potentially liable for any losses to the data that was utilizing that storage if it can be shown that disconnection was improper. Additionally, Peer 1 clearly establishes the ownership question in their contract when they define "Customer data." and clearly disclaim all rights and ownership to that data. So "for those having trouble following along", I provided this stipulation to point out that Peer 1 nor Kevin own this data, and Peer 1 agrees as per their TOS that they don't own the data. Neither Peer 1 nor Kevin, nor Select VPS has the right to open a website using this data, publish a book and print this data, broadcast the data over the radio, etc. The question regarding the ownership of the data is important because it required having "standing" before a court in order to have the opportunity to ask the court to protect/recover your data. I've already explained this before. You really should read Peer 1's contract before coming to a conclusion. I will say I agree with you. After the contract is terminated, they have no liability to the reseller or the end user for any loss/destruction of the data. But then again, this is why part of my opinion is based on the fact that Peer 1 terminated the contract improperly. This termination by Peer 1 knowingly put other people's property in jeopardy. Their manner in which they acted actually put more property in jeopardy which they had the ability to prevent. Failure to prevent this could be considered negligence. This negligence could/may/potentially/possibly/uncertain open Peer 1 to liability. Again... It's just my opinion... And admittedly a biased one. I (think I) know more that you "assume". Obviously we disagree. And frankly in the few conversations I have had with Peer 1 I don't believe they hold this position either. They know this is other people's property and they are holding it in hope of leveraging the many users who would like to recover their data to pressure their resellers to come up with the money. This is an obvious conclusion because many persons, myself included, have offered to pay Peer 1 for the service necessary to recover the data, and in some cases pay for the monies that are owed to them for the service they used which they didn’t get paid for. It would seem to me that this would be a great business decision because they would recoup some of their losses, they can still sue for monies owed to them, they can get a waiver of liability signed y the data owners in exchange for access, the have one less machine they have to protect in case there is liability for the data, and they have a server they can put back on the market. Even with all these benefits of taking that approach, Peer 1 refuses to negotiate. It's a terrible business and legal decision in my opinion. This may be a good point, but irrelevant to my post. The issue of liability between SelectVPS and Peer 1 is not an issue I addressed in my post, nor is one that I care about. The problem is Peer 1 has now entered the realm of debt collection. There are state and federal laws on the books describing what a creditor can and cannot do. I'm pretty sure taking the property of a third party, which is not a party of contract or the promissory note for the debt, is not a permitted debt collection practice. But then again, I'm not a lawyer. Just trying using common sense here. Admittedly, this is an assumption of mine. However it is an assumption from information I gather from my personal experience. Our server was enabled just a week before the cut off. We had ordered the server from SelectVPS a week before that and we had to wait a while for the server to be deployed/provisioned. From our initial conversations with SelectVPS and from the offering threads they have on this very site, it was obvious they were ordering new capacity from Peer 1 up to and through the date of disconnection. I believe Select VPS was in the process of getting servers from Peer 1 in the LA data center till the very end. I cannot tell from your post if you are an affected customer of Select VPS (or an employee of Peer1 for that matter), but if you were a direct customer of SelectVPS or OmegaVPS, or any of the other screwed companies, you would know this too. Again, I based my assumption on the anecdotal evidence I personally witnessed in the last 6 weeks. Of course, over this time some of the information we believed turned out to be complete lies and fabrications. I am drawing my current conclusions on the best understanding of the data to date. This again is why I started my post the way I did... No, no, no, and once again no. Peer1 is in possession of "MY" data. Correct, never claimed differently. Hey all is not lost. We agree on something. Last edited by ArtieMcD; 10-12-2006 at 06:48 PM.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 06:42 PM
I was told today that none of the servers will get put back on -- I asked if the possible deal was still in effect and they said no Im truely sorry guys =\ Im going to talk to them as much as I can but I wouldnt hold my breath on the data
Posted by biggerboy, 10-12-2006, 06:46 PM
Looks like Peer1 has made their decision. If you can't get them back, I would really like to acknowledge your attempt, it really does show you care. What you got put into is something that everyone but a large corporation would have trouble recovering from. I really hope this doesn't ruin your reputation forever, and maybe you can start servicing customers again. From this thread I have learned you really care.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 06:57 PM
as I eluded to earlier, This isnt the last from me.. I am determined to make a scene in the hosting community.. If that means I have to start all over from square one, then by-goly Im going to do it.. and Im going to do it right.. I contacted HostLegal about gettings a good TOS / AUP / PP as well as my local attorney to create me a contract between myself and my future providers and/or customers.. Right now, Im talking to EnervateMedia (as this is where Andre and I sent the money to) to see if they will create me a website "out of the kindness of their heart" if they will then great, if not, I'll hire another person to do the design.. Im going to take some time off, away to try and re-coup some of my expenses / fees so far, but I should be back before the end of November -- Atleast my goal is to RE-PAY EVERYONE and open up by Nov. 30th My plans are going to be strictly web-hosting until I can get a good solid contract deal with a DataCenter and not a Reseller of that DataCenter.. Thats the last thing I need is something like this to happen again
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-12-2006, 06:58 PM
Do you have an attorney yet? If so, do they think it would be possible to file an injunction to compel Peer 1 to hold the data while any legal issues are resolved?
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 07:11 PM
I will consult my attorney tomorrow -- There is a good chance we cant do much as the contract is with Peer1 and Keith (hence why they cant come after SelectVPS / OmegaVPS / any of the others.)
Posted by irpr, 10-12-2006, 07:27 PM
I dont understand peer1's point here. Screwing end users for the money they lost! and they dont even want to make a deal to at least get some money back from the end users!
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Ok, good to hear. I know that is is much disagreement with my position that we may have standing against Peer 1 and the common belief is that only Kevin can sue Peer 1... but feel free to pass along some of the arguments I made in my post last night and tonight and see what the lawyers think. As a service provider with a presence in Florida, there may be laws in place giving Peer 1 more responsibility over end users property/data than what was specified in their contract. I can't accept the fact that Peer 1 can brazenly clobber other peoples work/data with absolutely no regard for the importance or value of that data, and actually made decisions and reacted in ways that increased the amount of harm that ultimately resulted. Yes, at the end of the day we are talking about bits on a hard disk. But the specific arrangement of those bits have value, value that can be monetized. Obviously Kevin destroyed a handful of companies by his actions or lack thereof, but Peer 1 added several hundreds more victims by their choices and actions, many of which were completely avoidable. I'm stumped by Peer 1s decision not only from a legal, but from a PR, and a business point of view. They can recover some of their financial loses by doing the right thing. If they destroy that data however, they more than likely won't see a dime. Of course, there's nothing anyone can do about a company determined to make stupid business decisions. But from the people at Peer 1 I spoke with personally, the man at the top I was able to speak with was frankly an ***, and I can totally see why this is the decision they made.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-12-2006, 07:46 PM
ArtieMcD, Trust me I have contacted several lawyers including my direct corporate lawyer and a few others including my wife and brother who are both lawyers and 2 senior partners at a firm in Canada where I reside. They all say your data is not your in the face of the law based on Peer1's agreement with Keith. Peer1 is sufficiently removed from you or me unfortunatly. If you find out different from your attorney's please let me know as they are basing this on Canadian law which is where Peer1 is based. I am assured that there is sufficient case law to prevent us compelling Peer to do anything. Now they did say that we could seek an injunction but it would need to be willing to incur significant cost with no significant prospect of success. I for one am not going to throw good money after bad. Robert what about their silly claim of holding you jointly liable for one of Keith's bills. Consult a lawyer, the lack of any agreement or payment and the fact that Peer1 is alleging that Keith assigned the account without their agreement won't sit well in thier opinion.
Posted by thetimehascome, 10-12-2006, 07:59 PM
Not exactly. I know, I did read the entire thread before responding. It's only prudent. Anyone can find Peer1's legal documents, because it quite clearly says "Legal" under the resources links on their various sites. Of course the law recognizes bits of data as property. The hardware itself belongs to Peer1 and always has, no matter who is leasing the server. The data on those drives belongs to the customer. At issue here is the exclusionary nature of "customer". In this instance, the "customer" is the party who contracted service with Peer1. Therefore, the data on those drives is the property of that "customer" in the sense that Peer1 can - and should, if they are smart about it - answer questions only to that "customer" and to no one else about that data. Since they seem to have a severe case of the same foot in mouth disease that afflicts so many other hosts, at this point their better option would be to assign this specific case to the category of "extreme and extenuating circumstance", turn the servers back on for a predefined period of time (24 hours), let people grab what they can grab, then shut the servers back down. At best, it will give them the image of being the good guy in all this. At worst, it will cost them whatever bandwidth it takes for people to grab their data, and since they let keith skate by on thousands and thousands of dollars of fees, another 24 hours of transfers is not going to matter all that much. Once again, it is entirely irrelevant if the servers are leased to third parties. The intent of the "customer" with regard to the lease of the hardware, so long as it is not in violation of either any existing state or federal statute or in violation of Peer1's terms of service, is irrelevant. You're welcome. Assumptions make the world go 'round at WHT. It isn't as sticky as you believe. Peer1 is in possession of data belonging to their "customer". It's much more likely that the reason for retention of the data is the dim possibility that someone will pay the outstanding fees, that they are considering turning this into an extreme situation and making arrangements for that, or that they just have no real reason at this very moment to wipe the servers clean. Who is assuming here? Not me: I read through all of the documents Peer1 provides on their site before posting. That is my habit, to be fully informed before posting. And if you read along even further, you'll find that Peer1 clearly states they can suspend delinquent accounts at their discretion. I had "saw" that, thank you very much. Your limited knowledge of contract law results in a very narrow view of what the contract actually says and what basis for exclusions and exceptions exist. It doesn't matter what efforts SelectVPS makes or doesn't make, actually: there is always the possibility that one of their customers could sue them, no matter what lengths they go to in order to retrieve data. What terms they have of their own I have not read, but I will tell you that unless the loss is the result of SelectVPS going to the NOC and taking a sledgehammer to intentionally destroy a server and all the data therein, the odds of prevailing for loss and/or damages are slim. If SelectVPS does not offer backups, or offers them but makes no guarantee, and if they further advise their clients in their terms to make their own backups, the odds are even slimmer that any such legal nonsense will go anywhere. I can guarantee you that during voir dire, any competent attorney for the defense will endeavor to put as many people on the panel as possible who have Internet experience or experience with loss of service and/or property due to the actions (or inactions) of a third party. Your example does not work here. If you find a wallet on the street with someone's identification within it, then you can reasonably assume that the property belongs to that person. Beyond that, there is no contractual agreement in place with any third party with the random discovery of physical property lying on the street. In this case, Peer1 has a contract with Keith, and therefore cannot make any reasonable assumptions regarding the data that resides on the servers in question other than the data belongs to him because he is their customer. No, it isn't phony: it is a clearcut instance of contractual obligation. I'll give you yet another one. A small utility buys service from a larger utility, and then resells that service to an even smaller utility. For this example, we'll use a water utility called SmallWaterCo and their reseller as NeighborhoodWater. You purchase service from NeighborhoodWater, and pay them a fee each month for them providing a stream of water (data) to you. You can access your usage at any time, courtesy of a meter (server). One day you awake to find that your water (data) is inaccessible, and that you no longer have access to the meter (server). When you ask NeighborhoodWater what happened, they tell you that although they have paid SmallWaterCo each month as agreed, SmallWaterCo failed to pay the larger utility that actually provided the service and the pipes through which the water ran. HugeWaterCo indicates that unless someone pays the fees associated with the usage, the service will not be returned. Or, they say that service will not be returned, period. Your claim, if any, can only be against NeighborhoodWater. Your claim would have a serious problem finding anyone to issue a judgment against NeighborhoodWater, however, since, even as you indicate, service had been provided, as agreed, in return for your payment each month and they, in turn, paid SmallWaterCo as agreed between those parties. In addition, if NeighborhoodWater recommended that people draw down some water (data) from time to time to keep on hand just in case (backups), and people did not do that, then their customers are also partly responsible for their own losses. Do you understand the point now? HugeWaterCo, who has water that you claim belongs to you, has no obligation to you to provide it, because they don't know you from Adam. Would it be good PR for them to open the pipes for awhile? Yes it would. Do they have to do it? No they do not. Incorrect. They are in possession of property that by definition could only be owned in a legal sense to them by their customer. If you store something in a friend's storage locker and that friend fails to pay the company, the company is under no obligation to release anything at all to you when they lock down the locker. This is getting repetitive, and the facts are not going to change no matter how many times you say you believe something. Peer1 did no such thing as "improperly" take possession of your data. They suspended or terminated service when their customer failed to make payments as agreed. And, once again, let's all repeat it together: this is irrelevant. Chorus and verse: this is irrelevant. I don't see where anyone has made any such claim. This is irrelevant unless someone is using your copyrighted material without your permission. And when they wave the fistful of unpaid invoices in the face of a judge, I'd like to see you try to explain the disconnection was improper. especially since you have no standing in the case. Of course they do. And their customer is Keith. Not you, not anyone else who failed to make backups of their very important data. You're woefully uninformed about contract law and the liabilities that exist for Peer1. I don't see anyone suggesting that Peer1 is going to go digging through hard drives to find some site and start posting the data from it. Judge: Did you enter into a contract with Peer1? You: No, Your Honor. Judge: Did you make backups of your own data? You: No, Your Honor. Judge: Case dismissed. You have no standing in this issue. In fact, were I a defense attorney, my very first question to you would be why you don't have backups of your data if it is so very important. And you really should stop assuming that because someone disagrees with you that they haven't read said documents. One more time: termination of service to Peer1's customer has no relevance to effects on that customer's customer, nor is Peer1 obligated in any way, shape, or form to those further downline than their customer. There is zero negligence on their part for suspending service to a delinquent account, and while it would be nice if HugeWaterCo would turn on the pipes for awhile so those downline could fill their water jugs, if they don't do that, there's no legal liability there. Wow, I must have missed the part where someone offered to pay the many thousands of dollars Peer1 says is owed. It may be a poor business decision on their part to not work with the affected people, but it's far from a poor legal decision. How many times do we really have to go over this? There is no third party property here. There are servers, leased by Peer1's customer, which are suspended or terminated for nonpayment. Whatever data is on those drives, by contract, belongs to Keith, and in a debt collection sense, the data is a nonissue anyway. Peer1 would not enter collections except for the leases they provided for which they had not been paid. That, like everything else here, has nothing to do with you or any other customer of a customer. And this matters how? New service being set up and then everything being shut down when some threshold of nonpayment was reached is unsurprising. I am a disinterested third party. I am not employee or customer of any of the companies mentioned. No, they are not. They are in possession of data residing on servers leased by their customer, who was shut down for nonpayment. Last edited by thetimehascome; 10-12-2006 at 08:03 PM.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 08:04 PM
During my call with Azues today, I asked him, "So, does this mean your still going to come after me" he replied and said "No, we are going to go after Keith" -- I dont remember the exact words, but that was the jist of it..
Posted by thetimehascome, 10-12-2006, 08:11 PM
They would have been foolish to try and collect anything from you in any case. But, a word of advice: in the future, if you wind up with access to your provider's system from their provider, make sure you have some kind of signed document in place and on file with the ultimate upstream provider saying that your access is as a designated contact for purposes other than billing. Better yet, don't touch someone else's access to the upstream's system at all. There will be far fewer headaches for you that way.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 08:15 PM
Exactly my point -- Im not going to deal with another reseller of a datacenter.. If that means, Im paying $20.00 extra, then so be it.. Im not going to have this happen again..
Posted by bdsnyder, 10-12-2006, 08:18 PM
thetimehascome I am not involved in this situation, but want to thank you for taking the time in preparing a very detailed explanation for all to learn from.
Posted by Karri, 10-12-2006, 08:45 PM
I am a little more than dismayed that Peer1 would rather alienate all of the third party customers who have data on the affected servers than to try to work something out with them to get it back. They have nothing to lose by doing so and they have people standing here saying "we will give you money for our data" and they refuse. Yes I know as everyone has said ad nauseam that they claim the data is the property of the contract owner blah blah blah but obviously this is an extenuating circumstance and it would create a lot of good will and positive PR for them to try and work something out with us. At this point I will never do any sort of business with Peer1 or any of their resellers again and I am sure there are many others here that sare the sentiment. Right now the remainder of my refund is almost worth more to me than my data but it certainly wouldn't suck to get it back and it would show that Peer1 could be the "adult" in this situation if they made at least a remedial effort to work with people other than the lip service they have apparently been giving everyone.
Posted by Concieved, 10-12-2006, 09:43 PM
I hope Keith gets what's coming to him with an iron fist of justice, and fury. Good luck platinumn23 with all you're future endevor's. Hope to see you on the hosting scene, again, real soon.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-12-2006, 09:45 PM
He has already told me: "Im going to file Bankruptcy and end up not oweing a dime!"
Posted by Concieved, 10-12-2006, 10:06 PM
He is going to file, yet have www.SteamPoweredServers.com and www.squadvoice.com open up for business, still? A true idiot never ceases to amaze.
Posted by TCP/IP Warrior, 10-13-2006, 12:06 AM
Folks... Keith can say whatever he wants to you. That might have been true a year ago but: Read it here: http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/catI...9/213/161/ART/ Now on to Peer1: Does anyone want to buy a domain??? These are available.... peer1sucks.com, peer1stinksrightnow.com, peer1keptmydata.com, peer1ruinedmybusiness.com, peer1-watchout.com, peer1mightscrewyou.com Now you are all internet savvy people here... a lawyer can't help you but bad publicity can. I bet your local radio or news station might want to hear how the big giant corporation ruined a smaller business on the grounds that they allowed (if this is in fact true) a froudulent reseller to rack up such an outstanding bill with no credit. That said: 1) Contact local radio/tv stations.... have you ever seen them rerun the same lame story? that's because sometimes they have NO NEWS. 2) Publish a true report from your perspective at www.ripoffreport.com 3) Contact the BBB in the municipality where your data is being held. 4) File a complaint with the COUNSUMER AFFAIRS OFFICE in the county where Peer1 is holding the data (if it's miami then it's Dade County and here's your link: http://www.miamidade.gov/csd/complaint.asp ). 5) Insert your own ideas here please! Folks... I am not a certified board attorney in any state but in my opinion Peer1 is not obligated legally to initially give you access to your data. HOWEVER, they should morally give you that access since they are the ones that extended the credit to a fraudster. I think you should all show them the "light" following the steps above! Good Luck!
Posted by irpr, 10-13-2006, 12:19 AM
Great post, I'll definatly do all these if they dont give my data and ruin my life!!!
Posted by pixeldawn, 10-13-2006, 02:17 AM
Wow. Really sad to know about this. I was almost going to go with SelectVPS, but at the last moment I chose another company.
Posted by thetimehascome, 10-13-2006, 01:51 PM
This would be a highly immature thing to do. Ooooo, big bad Company screwed the little guy. Here's an idea: don't be childish and do any of this to try and make Peer1 look badly because of this situation. Their internal processes may be in need of attention so that they don't have tens of thousands of dollars of unpaid invoices from a single party, but if people do not take responsibility for their own data and make backups, it matters very little in this instance if the outstanding debt is ten thousand dollars or ten cents. The servers would be shut down regardless of the amount owed if the account was delinquent, and people who fail to safeguard their data would still be in the same boat. Because you believe Peer1 is taking the moral low road, you advocate everyone else doing the same? That's nonsense.
Posted by adam, 10-13-2006, 02:02 PM
Okay I think that we have easily come to the conclusion that you work for Peer 1 so you can stop denying it.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-13-2006, 02:15 PM
LOL nah I don't think he does but what the hell do I know.
Posted by irpr, 10-13-2006, 02:51 PM
I love it how people come and kiss peer1's butt left and right, what do you get from them??? Do they pay you for this service??? LMAO If you are not affected by their decission dont even bother posting here, cuz its non of your business!!! Last edited by irpr; 10-13-2006 at 03:05 PM.
Posted by Mat Sumpter, 10-13-2006, 03:07 PM
They have absolutely no why of verify who actually owns the data on the servers in their possession. Only Keith knows exactly who was assigned to what server. Would you want someone to call Peer1 and give them the IP address for your server, pay an outstanding balance for that server, and then Peer1 hand over the data on your server? You could have thousands of email addresses, credit cards, etc. There is a much higher liability in giving that data out to an 'uninterested third party' than to just delete it and sue whoever has the debt. You could verify root passwords, but many people hire 3rd parties to manage servers who would have that information also. There is no way for Peer1 to verify you are indeed the rightful owner of the data. And just turning servers back online are not always an option; the original customer could very well have access to servers and cause damage by wiping the servers, or allow him to access information that could be used to scam more people (credit cards, etc). Everyone is welcome to come to WebHostingTalk and participate in any discussion no mater what level of involvement they have as long as they obey the rules. That's the idea of a public discussion. If you don't want other parties to participate and input their own opinions then take it to private message, email, or some other private method of communication. Last edited by Mat Sumpter; 10-13-2006 at 03:11 PM.
Posted by irpr, 10-13-2006, 03:12 PM
I dont agree with you, people can verify IP addresses, root password, and also content of their server. I can verify almost 90% of the content with the exact file sizes, they can also get a list from the people that sold the servers to us like omega and selectvps. I know they are not responsible to do all these, but what do they get by just deleting our data?
Posted by Mat Sumpter, 10-13-2006, 03:46 PM
But there is no legal way to know you have the right to access that data. Even if you know the structure and every password. They don't have a contract saying that boxA belongs to customerD. Keith could turn around and potentially file a counter-suit for stealing his customers if they decided to give you the data back. And if they decided to turn the servers online for 24 hours, how are they going to notify all of his customers? They don't have his contact list of server owners, so after 24 hours, users come to Peer1 and whine that because they weren't notified they should get another 24 hours, and so when does it stop? Another example would be if the support techs have a copy of the root passwords for specific customer servers. They could talked to Peer1 just like they were you, get the data from the server and do whatever they wanted to with it. If your billing database was stored on that server with hundreds of credit card numbers, do you know what kind of fines Peer1 would face from Visa/MasterCard for compromising that list? It would be to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars. There is no way the Peer1 legal department would even consider taking that liability. No mater what Peer1 does, they will not please everyone. The smartest thing for Peer1 to do, is notify Keith that if he wants his servers back online, he needs to remit payment by X date or the servers will be wiped. After X date, they should be wiped, end of story, and then forward his bill onto the collections department. Believe me, I've seen this exact same thing happen dozens of times to users here on WHT. This forum has become a refuge camp for many disenfranchised customers and it's sad to see every time it happens. All I can do is keep reminding people of the old computer adage: "Backup Early, Backup Often"
Posted by irpr, 10-13-2006, 03:52 PM
I see your point here and it is right, but come on, there is a way to at aleast keep the damages less than what it is now. I definatly agree on the backup part. It was truly my fault for saving my backups on the same server, but still there is a better way for handling such a mess
Posted by Directiz, 10-13-2006, 06:55 PM
Good day all.. i have been in talks with peer 1 and my servers will be going back online monday the deal i worked out with them was that i paid 3 months in advance and sign a 12 month contract. so the good news for me is my servers back online and my access to my clients data
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-13-2006, 07:01 PM
I was told that today as well... Im sorry, but I really dont want to enter into a 12 MONTH Contract and PRE-PAY 3months in advance for 50+ Servers... Now, If it was for just 1 server and I would get back ups for them all, then Yes, I would.. but its a waste of money to be paying $50,000+ /month on servers I have no need / use for.. -- I just want the Backups
Posted by irpr, 10-13-2006, 07:03 PM
Do they offer the same deal to us??? How much do they want for 1 server?
Posted by IrdHost, 10-13-2006, 07:03 PM
platinumn23, if that is true, i will be mad!!! Ours servers and our business are down for more that 1 week and directiz will have is servers back??? what are you doing (if that is true???) Also what is your email, because i want now a refund.
Posted by GoGlay, 10-13-2006, 07:12 PM
with the amount of people that want to servers back online, I am sure some, if not most of us would take the deal. Well, depending on the mothly fee peer1 is plan on charging.
Posted by IrdHost, 10-13-2006, 07:14 PM
exacly!....
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-13-2006, 07:23 PM
The Cheapest server is $99.00 for a Celeron 1.7 with 40GB Space... So, pre-pay that for 3 months and enter into a 12month contract and you'll have your data back... The servers I had, are anywhere from $338 to $1100+ /Month... So, take your pick Anyone willing to do this, please contact me and I'll talk to Peer1 about this.. Thanks, Robert
Posted by GoGlay, 10-13-2006, 07:31 PM
Perhaps it'd be more efficient is you could disclose the different server packages you had, as well as the monthly price peer1 is currently asking for. I am sure quite a few people will be pleased to know such information.
Posted by Mivo, 10-13-2006, 07:43 PM
Or Robert, perhaps you could contact each of your dedicated server clients and tell them what's the deal for their individual servers to get back online. But will Peer1 allow you to activitate partial quantity of servers under your account?
Posted by thetimehascome, 10-13-2006, 07:54 PM
Give me a break. The ease with which you have come to that particular conclusion shows only that you jump to conclusions without all the facts. I'm not kissing anyone's butt, and if you would actually read, you'd see that I've already said Peer1 is making a huge PR blunder by not working with the affected people now that they've discussed the particulars with non-contracted third parties - that means, for people who can't grasp it, that Peer1 has discussed these issues with persons other than Keith. And who are you, exactly, to instruct me what I can I cannot do? This is a public forum, and if you're not interested in what I'm saying, you are free to pass right by it all.
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-14-2006, 01:21 AM
It sure didn't seem like you read it because you are the one who said: You are the one who said, a breach of contract woudl invalidate thier need to provide 30 day notice, when the contract specifically calls for qa 30 day written notice for breech of contract. Missing that simple fact in your original post certainly gives the impression that you didn't read the contract at the time of your original post. So your position is that no company can be held liable to damages to any other entity unless there is a contract between those parties? There are no actions a company can take that would subject that company to legal liability if there is no contract between the parties? Companies/individuals under their respected states have no obligations which are defined by laws duly passed by the legislatures of the state, and can be sued by non customers if they are harmed if the company should ac tin a way that’s inconsistent with the law? Entities and individuals in most states don't have a legal duty to not perform an action that could cause harm or unlawfully restrict the rights and privileges of another individual? The offer of thanks was conditional on your being a lawyer. You have the majority opinion on this. But I disagree on your definition of belonging/ownership. Your insistence that this is solely a matter of contract law is my dispute with your position and why you’re drawing what in my opinion is a narrow view of the possible issues. The existence of a contract is not relevant. If you found a bag of money on the street with no identification in it, you are still required by law (in some states) to turn it over to authorities so they can find the proper owner. And if they can’t, the finder then can then keep the property but only after they make a reasonable attempt to find the real owner. This is not a contract issue, this is a property and possession issue. Once again, you are confused. This example is also not relevant because in that situation you are buying water from the provider, and as part of your payment for the water that company have overhead of providing the mechanism and the service to deliver the water to you. The situation here is Peer 1 is leasing hardware and bandwidth to deliver and store other people data. They are selling the ability to deliver and store bits through their data center, internet connection, and hardware. The terms of that service are between Keith and Peer 1 and I am in no way advocating and or recommending and sort of legal process for the interruption of that service. The legal predicament is in regards to the “bits” that are flowing thought that service. By cutting off the service, there are several bits backed up in the plumbing, which is not property of Peer 1s to sell or do anything with it. I do understand. I understand your example is not valid. The only valid part of your argument is your assertion that you cannot sue the water company for disruptions in the flow of the water. In much the same way, we cannot sue Peer 1 for business losses due to interruptions in service, which is an issues indeed directly related to the contract between Peer 1 and Keith. If you want an example that actually fits the bill... Let’s say a person leases a car, and they fall behind in the lease. The car is eventually repossesses due to non payment. When they take position of the vehicle and they are cleaning it out they find a nice engagement ring in the glove box. If this were to occur, the company that called back the lease and repossessed THEIR property they have no right to keep the engagement ring to help satisfy the debt. Doing so would subject them to liability for theft, as they have no contractual claim or ownership to that property. Of course, the person who leased the car (or anyone who sublet it or whom depended on the vehicle for their job) has no right to sue the company for any damages if they lose their job because they could no longer get to work. Once again, your logic is flawed. In the case of a storage locker, the contracts usually have a clause that state the storage company can take possession of any of the storage contents if the rent is not paid to which they have the right to dispose of or sell as they see fit to recoup the debt. Of course, they usually also have to provide the owner written notice that they plan to exercise this option and they have a certain date to make good on the payments. Peer 1 had no such clause in their contract with their resellers. Again, the termination of service is not at issue. They were right to do so. And had the termination been as part of the normal course of business, or after reasonable notice due to breech of the contract, then they of course can and should be able to wipe those machines and resell them as soon as possible. But Peer 1 in this case made the decision to pull the plug with no notice. And by doing so they were fully aware there would be cutting off lots of third parties from their data. If they attempt to claim they are not aware, that argument may not fly if it can be shown a reasonable person should have know this would happen. So now that they stumbled upon this property, depending on the states they do business in, they may have obligations to protect this data and or return it to their rightful owners. I believe this is the case in Florida. In fact, in the case of the Diamond Ring from my example, had the company not been able to find the rightful owner they may have to turn it over to the state because of the Unclaimed Property laws the state may have on the books. It is unclear however if those legal responsibilities apply to “electronic property”. Yeah, I know talking to you is like squeezing blood from a rock… Copyright implies ownership of data. Only the owner of the data or any intellectual property has any right to any copyright. You keep claiming that Keith is the owner of the data, yet he has no ability claim to the copyright if he so desired to do so, if he cant copyright it, he by definition is not the owner, regardless of what you claim. Again, we are not arguing or proposing appearing before a judge for any loses due to the act of the disconnection. We would be approaching a court to compel Peer 1 to provide access to data, data that we can prove is ours, and we can prove they are in possession of. The fact that we own the data gives us standing before a court to protect our property. Nope, I don’t think Peer 1 is going to do that and never suggested they would. However, if Keith was the owned of the data as you keep insisting, the “could” because that’s their right as the property owner. They real owners of that data have the absolute right to stand before and demand whatever protections the law affords their private property, regardless of the relation ship that person has with Peer 1. None of the contract that Peer 1 has entered into could possibly take the owned ship of “MY” data away from “ME” without one of those contracts being an agreement between myself and Peer 1. Well this is where your assumptions are going fail you once again. We have backups. In fact we were very lucky because we had only been on the server for 4 days, and were only 5% of the way in migrating our services to that box. Of that 5% we figure we only have a 20% loss. Mostly the data from the three full days of transactions that we accumulated while we were on the server. We did have daily backups running, but they were only stored locally on the box as we were in the middle of setting up the offsite mirror and to sync our backup images. You also seem to be ignoring, that it’s possible that some people may had been saving their backups on a server at a second Peer 1 data center as it is prudent to do so to protect from localized catastrophes, black outs, and natural disasters. We never got to that point yet, but its obvious known that people who may have had that arrangement are doubly screwed because the backup servers are also offline. Additionally, no backup system is 100% perfect. There will always be the potential for data loss, and the amount of potential loss is directly proportional to the interval between backups/syncronizations. A server with full daily backups would still have data held up by Peer 1. No matter how much or how little data that is potentially in limbo, it is not up to your nor Peer 1 to decide how much that data is worth and what should be done to protect it. So at the end of the day, we took precautions with our data, and we were aware of the risks of potential data loss from any unforeseen casualties. If a meteorite had hit the peer 1 data center and destroyed the server and the content, then we this would not be an issue. But a meteorite did not hit the Peer 1 data center, and to date, the data on the servers is still preserved. Regardless of the potential value of the data that we lost, it’s the principal of the matter. I don’t care if the data lost is 1 single file, or 25 servers worth of customer data…. There is data that has some value to someone, and that data has not been destroyed, so we have the right to reclaim it (and compensate Peer 1 for reasonable their expenses in protecting and delivering the property back to their rightful owners). I do feel bad for those who may have lost access to significantly more data that we have, but I too am in disbelief that that a good percentage of that data did not have any reasonable contingency plans in place to protect them from a potential disaster. However, a disaster is not what occurred here… No servers, datacenters, nor data has been destroyed. As I explained earlier, I did not assume you did not read the document because you posed a differing opinion. I assumed you did not read the document because you had made a direct comment and took a position on an item that was directly contradicted by the text of the document. Correct. I don’t claim that, nor do I advise anyone to so. Again, not an issue. I can go fill my water jugs by the water provided by XYZCorp. It’s not my water in the first place until I have fully paid for it. Your right, no one made that offer. In fact, the offer I presented to Peer 1 was to pay them form their time and costs of recovering and delivering our data, and I also made a good faith gestures to offer to pay them for the portion of their losses directly attributable by the service of theirs we ultimately consumed and we feel they deserve payment from. Now that I have made that offer, if they choose not to make a counter offer, or make a reasonable attempt to negotiate amicable terms to allow us to repossess our data, and instead just decide to destroy the property, that destruction would potentially open them up to liability to me. Not for breech of contract, not for anything to do with their agreement to Keith. We feel they would then risk making themselves liable to me for the act of intentionally destroying our data. Yeah, this is the last time I respond to this theme of yours. I disagree. This data does not belong to Keith. As long as we disagree on that point, your will continue to defend your position. I of course will never be able to be convinced by your argument, because I can prove the data “by law, the data belongs to ME”. Peer 1 has entered into collections. They have a debt, and they have approached a party in an effort to collect the debt. The moment this happened, their collection effort because subject to the regulations of the Fair Debt Collection act. And like everything else, I don’t expect you to agree to this point since your “ownership” assumption is the reverse of mine… I however, am now involved in Peer 1 collection efforts because Peer 1 is knowingly in possession of my property and am withholding it from me as a condition of the repayment of the debt. A debt which I do not owe to them. Peer 1 included me in their dispute when they came in position of my property. Sorry dude, I can’t help you if you can’t follow along with the conversation. But you challenged me in how I could possibly know how much capacity Peer 1 had released in the final days, and that was my explanation to you on how I came about my assumption. I make no effort in this last post to make an argument there other than to provide the authoritative reference you questions in my original hypothesis. See my original post if you need to see the argument that I made and how I believe that argument is one necessary to show why Peer 1 could be held responsible for the data, especially considering their actions lead to an increase in the amount of data at risk. Last edited by ArtieMcD; 10-14-2006 at 01:30 AM.
Posted by ArtieMcD, 10-14-2006, 01:54 AM
Grr, I should know better than writing that last post I made so late in the evening and not proof reading it completely before posting... I got caught by the 15 minute rule while I was editing my obviously large number of spelling and grammar mistakes. I apologize in advance for the crappy post I made, which I should have cleaned up before I posted it the first time. Also, this paragraph in my original post is completely unclear, so I am rewriting it below in hopes of it coming across slightly more readable. What I should have said was. If a company is leasing a vehicle to a person who falls behind in their lease payments forcing the company to repossess the vehicle, that company would be well in their rights to recover their property, the vehicle. However, let’s say while cleaning out the vehicle, they find a diamond ring that belongs to the customer in the glovebox. The company has no right to keep, sell, or destroy that diamond ring, even if they could sell it to recover any funds due to them as that property is not collateral for the debt and still the rightful property of the original owner. Some laws/states may even require the company to make reasonable efforts to protect and/or to contact the owner to notify them of the property and allow them the opportunity to recover it (at the expense of the individual). Their failure to do so could subject them to claims of theft, and possible liability if the property were lost or damaged due to any intentional or negligent acts. Last edited by ArtieMcD; 10-14-2006 at 02:09 AM.
Posted by Coolraul, 10-14-2006, 10:22 AM
Hey ArtieMcD and thetimehascome, You guys have provided some valuable information and insight but since you two are now reduced to bickering like my two youngest girls could you two please go away and continue this entertaining discourse over IM or PM. K thanks... Some of us who have lost a lot of money on this directly appreciate your insight but your just taking it too far now. Thank you kindly.
Posted by Erik71, 10-15-2006, 12:48 AM
I am a client of IRDHost and this whole situation is really incredible. Just want to talk with you Emeric, can you please email me at erik@eyeskream.com or give me an email address where I can join you? This forum won't let me PM you. Thank you!
Posted by saran79, 10-15-2006, 07:03 AM
Robert, Refund the money soon, so that I can switch to some other VPS. You never worry coz no one knows you, after all a virtual business works based upon trust. And you never really cared about your customers. I am really pissed off.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-15-2006, 11:05 AM
Excuse me? Did you not read the posts that I have made? I will refund everyone their money back, whether it was done already, or when I get the extra money.. If your going to come in here and bad talk me, then dont come to me asking for a refund.. You'll get it when I get the money. You coming on this thread and posting that I never really cared about any of my customers isnt right. I do/did care about them and I, unlike others, am trying to make things right by refunding money OUT OF MY OWN POCKET. I could of just let it go, started over, and never refunded anyone..
Posted by max viens, 10-15-2006, 12:58 PM
Hello all, this post is intended for Emric at Darfos and IRDHOST. Please can you give us an update on what are your plans and what can we expect from your company. Thanks Maxime Viens
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-15-2006, 01:00 PM
Keith, What I make from wherever is none of your concern, nor is it anyone elses.. How about you give me my money back??
Posted by ServerSquads, 10-15-2006, 01:10 PM
To let everybody know. Robert doesn't want anyone to now that he had the money pay you back. He makes a couple of thought dollars a month of google and yahoo ads. His words to me today were paid my car off with its. i dont care what you want to believe here but in not the guilty party.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-15-2006, 01:19 PM
Keith you accepted money for servers -- You made chargebacks to peer1 and they shut the servers off.. We know more about the situation then you think Keith.. And for the record, The money i do make on my arcade sites, gets RE-INVESTED to yeild a greater profit the next month -- From the money I make, I keep about $2,000 to myself, and Im paying $1,000.00/month on my NEW CAR and No, I NEVER TOLD YOU that I PAID IT OFF. Google Ads dont pay thousands, Yahoo ads do.
Posted by ServerSquads, 10-15-2006, 01:30 PM
Mr. Robert Maltby You talk a lot of bull ****. Keep telling the people here that there getting there money back. Well you know the answer to that and there not. If I remember did you also tell these people I was banned. You also told them that you knew everything about my account will am sorry, They Cant Talk to you about my account The stop your **** give these people their money back. You know you have it of course you are bragging to people in my ventrilo and even showed some of them snap shots of how much money you have made this month and last month with google ads and yahoo ads . The funny part is everyone's talking but no one is asking the real questions where is the proof you paid me for all this stuff the only thing you bought from me is a server thats sitting right next to me. in a box ready to be shiped untill you pull you **** and started this forum thread know i have to deal with people meassaging me on msn aim. or calling my phone . truth is people . rober hasent showing you any thing or can he prove any of theys accusations hes saying about me . Know i have 2 amd used servers hear at my house + the xeon i owe robert . please contact me show proff you bought from him the person with the highest bill will get one of theys servers. again im tired of this bull **** and it needs to stop robert games need to stop.
Posted by layer0, 10-15-2006, 01:54 PM
Atleast Robert knows how to spell.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-15-2006, 01:55 PM
Keith, You want proof? http://www.selectvps.com/PROOF/wht-reported-post.gif Or how about: http://www.selectvps.com/PROOF/ Should I upload all of our conversations and Emails as well Keith? I'll make a ScreenShot of each just for you.. The diference between you and I is that I AM A HONEST MAN, IF I TAKE MONEY FOR SERVICES NOT RENDERED, I REPAY IT.. You are one to talk, you took money for services / hardware and have NO INTENTIONS ON REPAYING THE MONEY FOR THE ITEMS NOT RENDERED. The sad thing is, You brought 2 very innocent people into this, Steve Duskett and Curtis Carter. Like I told everyone here, I had plans on Paying EVERYONE Back by the end of the month, when my Yahoo money came in... For everyone wondering; the address and phone number of Keith is posted a few pages back and it is correct -- I have had a BareBones Computer shipped to that address -- Or should I provide you a screen shot of that as well Keith?!
Posted by ServerSquads, 10-15-2006, 02:01 PM
LoL , that shows you paid for the dedicated servers siting in my house thats is.
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-15-2006, 02:02 PM
One of my first companies fell victim to something very similar to this... Except my provider, just decided to give me the shaft and refused to do business with me any longer.. http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=414616 I repaid everyone except for one person, which was brought up later and I did pay him back.. (as the last post would say)..
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-15-2006, 02:04 PM
Keith, You know good and well that the dedicated servers are in peer1.. Andre Knows it, Ryan Knows it, the other companies knows it... Stop acting like we didnt order anything from you.. BE A MAN -- FACE UP TO IT
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-15-2006, 02:05 PM
I knew I should have just left you once I heard your "punk-slang" talk.. Really, TAKE THE TIME TO WRITE(TYPE) OUT "THEM" OR "HIM" stop saying "UM" and leaving the reader to ponder WTF You are talking about..
Posted by RobertMaltby, 10-15-2006, 02:07 PM
What House?? You live in a Trailor
Posted by Coolraul, 10-15-2006, 02:26 PM
Hi there. Is this some kind of joke Keith? Are you really saying that Robert didn't purchase any services from you and at the same time are saying that yes he did purchase a server that is sitting beside you? So in other words he has purchased it and you are still holding it? I would ship that right off to him. Are you suggesting that the others on this board myself included are also lying as well and you are the poor innocent? I just want to be clear what you are stating. Did Robert purchase servers from you that were resold from Peer1. Did Andre? Did Adam? There was one other person but his name escapes me right now. Since you decided to show up. Help me to understand what you are claiming. Further, what Robert makes or doesn't is irrelevant. Has your grandmother provided the funds to repay Peer1 and failing that to repay me and the others affected? Edit: Robert, I strongly suggest that you don't fall for his bait. He would love for you to post something in anger that he can use later. You and I and many others know what happened and know that there is sufficient proof for it. Call me this afternoon its clear that we need to move forward on joint claims both civil and criminal. At this point your stooping to his level. Last edited by Coolraul; 10-15-2006 at 02:29 PM.
Posted by irpr, 10-15-2006, 02:33 PM
This guy is a definition of trash
Posted by Coolraul, 10-15-2006, 02:43 PM
I would like to invite everyone affected and can show actual losses to email me at omegavps[at]gmail.com as I would join it in any claim made. I am referring to those with a direct relationship with Keith. Just for reference we believe it is better to engage a lawyer in Mississippi where Keith resides or one in Atlanta or Miami where the servers are.
Posted by irpr, 10-15-2006, 02:46 PM
This is what you guys should have done about 8,9 days ago! Hire a lower and take this bastard to court!!!
Posted by WebhostingAsia, 10-15-2006, 02:50 PM
Nightmare comes true. 100% no hope for data now.
Posted by irpr, 10-15-2006, 02:54 PM
Why do you say that?
Posted by WebhostingAsia, 10-15-2006, 02:59 PM
These guys are now messing each other for money & legalwar not your or mine data.
Posted by irpr, 10-15-2006, 03:00 PM
Did you read Robert and Directiz's post about the deal peer1 have to get the servers back?
Posted by WebhostingAsia, 10-15-2006, 03:04 PM
Deal ????? Thats extortion by peer1 . I cant pay this much ransom for my data.
Posted by irpr, 10-15-2006, 03:06 PM
Well thats true but if your data is important to you and you need a server thats the best way to go
Posted by WebhostingAsia, 10-15-2006, 03:10 PM
Buddy i hope that i would have that much but after this setback thats not possible for me to get my valuable sql that got my 1.5 years day and night worth.
Posted by irpr, 10-15-2006, 03:20 PM
well im not even sure that I can get mine back, Im just hoping for it, but dont back off man, try to make a deal out of it. I understand what you are loosing
Posted by AvailNetworks, 10-15-2006, 04:05 PM
I remember actually dealing with this moron on MSN. I had a webhosting provider I talk to every once in awhile come to me with the question "hey I can get a dual Xeon for $139 does it sound legit?(or whatever SUPER low amount it was) so I humored him and had a chat with this guy. Turns out there was a peer1 rep invited too to this chat fest I MIGHT be able to dig up the screen name but the peer1 rep was indeed valid with a valid peer1 phone number from Georgia. But the way this guy was speaking was clear there was something fishy saying things like man here is the peer1 rep right here (invites him in to the chatroom), would he come in if I was full of s*** no way dude, this is a kick a** deal. I laughed at him, said sorry man I can smell your scam a mile away. I signed off and called peer1 and gave them the sales reps email address and credentials I was given (address, office phone, real email address, etc). They were going to investigate and call me back. I never heard anything of course. It's sad there are people like this in the world
Posted by P-nut, 10-15-2006, 05:20 PM
Normally a lawyer will ask for a lot of documentation - especially for something like this - which it sounds like platinum and CoolRaul are getting together. Without that paperwork there is no case to begin. *subscribes to thread
Posted by Mivo, 10-15-2006, 06:16 PM
Just for the record, Robert has refunded me my dedicated server payment for the unconsumed period this month which just goes on to show that he is serious in keeping his word to his clients. This Keith guy is a trash and a confused liar and I hope he goes to jail soon. His first post on this thread (using the handle ServerSquads) was to deny that he was Keith and to declare he has nothing to do with this mess. Look at ServerSquads profile: http://www.webhostingtalk.com/member.php?userid=138799 You sure this guy is 21 years old? Well, certainly he talks like a 13-year-old. But obviously this guy is on a prowl in a hunt for unsuspecting would be victims.
Posted by Jame$, 10-15-2006, 06:47 PM
Robert, how your paypal account stays open after all those disputes is beyond my understanding of paypal.